Plaidcast 319: Georgy Maskrey-Segesman & Mavis Spencer by Taylor, Harris Insurance Services

Plaidcast Episode 319 Georgy Maskrey-Segesman Mavis Spencer


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Piper and Traci Brooks speak with Georgy Maskrey-Segesman and Mavis Spencer about their Nation’s Cup experience and how they are chasing big goals together. Brought to you by Taylor, Harris Insurance Services. Listen in!


  • Host: Piper Klemm, Publisher of The Plaid Horse and Traci Brooks
  • Guest: Georgy Maskrey-Segesman is the owner and operator of Whitethorne LLC, a unique business model that develops equitation horses and show jumpers while mentoring and sponsoring ambitious and motivated riders. Georgy competed internationally up to the 1.50m Grand Prixs and also has a solid foundation in dressage. With this experience, she has successfully coached riders up to the 1.60m and to top placings in both national and regional medal finals. Georgy feels very strongly about education within the sport and hosts multiple clinics at her farm throughout the year and has also created and sponsors multiple equitation events, such as “The American Tradition of Excellence Equitation Challenge” held at Blenheim in San Juan Capistrano, California.  
  • Guest: Getting a solid start in California, Mavis Spencer spent her formative junior years training with Dick Carvin and Susie Schroer at Meadow Grove. Mavis jumped at the chance to work with top show jumpers in order to expand her knowledge and involvement in the sport, spending six years, mostly on the ground, managing horses for top professionals such as Kent Farrington, Darragh Kenny and Lorenzo de Luca. Mavis was given the opportunity to jump back into the saddle in the fall of 2014 and has since accumulated numerous wins on several mounts at the FEI level, including the U25, World Cup qualifying classes and represented the U.S. Jumping Team at the FEI Jumping Nations Cup competitions in Spain and Portugal in the fall of 2022. 
  • Title Sponsor: Taylor, Harris Insurance Services (THIS) was founded in 1987 to provide specialized insurance for all types of equine risk. THIS places their policies with the highest rated and most secure carriers, meticulously selected for reliability and prompt claims settlement. THIS is proud of their worldwide reputation for responsive and courteous service, and welcomes the opportunity to discuss your equine insurance needs and provide you with a quote.
  • Photo Credit: Sara Sheir Photography
  • Subscribe To: The Plaid Horse Magazine
  • Sponsors: Purina Animal Nutrition, America CryoLAURACEA, BoneKare, Alexis Kletjian Jewelry, Show Strides Book Series, Online Equestrian College CoursesWith Purpose: The Balmoral Standard, and American Equestrian School
Carleton Brooks of Balmoral Farm is also available to be your ordained minister on Mondays.

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

Piper Klemm [00:00:34] This is the Plaidcast. I’m Piper Klemm, publisher of The Plaid Horse Magazine. And coming up today on episode 319, I am joined by Traci Brooks of Balmoral Farm. And we are speaking with Georgy Maskrey-Segesman and Mavis Spencer from Whitethorne LLC about their Nations Cup experience a few months ago. And this episode is brought to you by Taylor Harris Insurance Services. Welcome back to the Plaidcast, Traci. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:02] Hi, Piper. Thanks for having me. 

Piper Klemm [00:01:04] I heard you’ve been signing books up a storm. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:08] My hand is tired. My Sharpie is worn out. 

Piper Klemm [00:01:12] Oh, my gosh. You need a new Sharpie. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:15] We need new sharpies. Because, you know my husband, he only wants to use new sharpies. He’s some kind of, like, a Sharpie snob, and he doesn’t want a used Sharpie. So we’ve gone through a lot of them. 

Piper Klemm [00:01:27] Oh, my gosh. That doesn’t sound like him at all. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:31] At all. I know. I know. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:34] For anyone who hasn’t met him, he he’s very…How would you describe him, Piper? Like. 

Piper Klemm [00:01:40] Organized, I think is the polite term. 

Traci Brooks [00:01:43] Yeah, I wasn’t going to I wasn’t going to describe him because it might not be polite. No, we love him. We love him. We just like to tease him. 

Piper Klemm [00:01:54] He does like things, organized and new and clean in a way that is antithetical to the Piper Klemm lifestyle. 

Traci Brooks [00:02:03] Exactly. That’s why you two get along so well. The yin and yang kind of thing. 

Piper Klemm [00:02:09] Or we’re both like what is happening? 

Piper Klemm [00:02:15] So yeah, the book, we have gotten so much positive feedback. It’s it’s amazing literally. Traci and you and Carleton text probably like ten times a day with different texts forwarded and emails and just compliments you get on the book, which is so awesome. We all put so much work into it and you know, it was, we had a lot of discussions about who to write the book for, and me being me. I wanted the book to be for everyone, which is a little bit of a tall order and and slightly ambitious. And I think we nailed it. 

Traci Brooks [00:02:53] I think we did, and I wasn’t sure either. But so many people are coming up to us, different types of people, all different levels. And just saying that the book is speaking to them and they love it and they can relate to it and they’re buying it as gifts. And people are listening to the audible while they’re driving back and forth to the show, and then they want to have the book in their library. So it’s been so gratifying and kind of shocking, honestly, that so many people are loving it. You know, we sort of did it as a labor of love, and I know you did it as a labor of love. And obviously, without without you pushing for it, it would have never happened without Rennie, who was amazing writing the book and Taylor Harris’s support. Someone came up to me the other day and said, I really didn’t know anything about horse insurance. And I was listening to the audible, and that chapter was so interesting to me. So there’s like, there are little tidbits in it for everyone. And I think the the most fun part of it is that each person tells me that something else was interesting to them. So to me, that means, all in all, the whole book is interesting, I hope. So it’s been fun. 

Piper Klemm [00:04:13] Absolutely. It’s like like the course designer, you know, doesn’t want to have all the rails at one jump. You know, they want to spread out over the course asking different questions to different horses. And and I think I think that’s what’s happening. And I also think and we talk a little bit on Plaid.0 For the January edition on just how all of our experiences bring us to reading something completely differently. And I think that’s I don’t honestly specifically remember reading Geoff Teal’s book when it first came out. I’m sure I did because I read everything, but I, I don’t specifically remember reading that one and reading it as, you know, an adult a couple of years ago. I mean, it just it had so much profound impact on me and so many people that that reread it along with me over the next couple of years as it as it was republished and came back out. Like. Anything that’s about horsemanship and about this stuff. You’re going to read it from a completely different perspective now, five years from now, ten years from now. Because as you evolve and you change your thinking, different things will stand out to you and different things will really clarify and cling on to you. And I really encourage everyone to go back and read all the classics that they’ve read before, because with the knowledge that they have now versus when they originally read it, I mean, you’re going to get a completely different interpretation. 

Traci Brooks [00:05:46] It’s so true. I think different things will resonate every time you pick it up. And what I love so much about Geoff’s book is that it’s completely timeless. 20 years ago, 20 years from now. I think all of it is going to still be relevant. And I love that book also because you pick it up and you can open it to any page and just read it for 5 minutes and get something out of it. You don’t have to read the whole book cover to cover. And that’s that’s something that I love about that book, and that’s what we wanted to. Work on with our book too, that you don’t have to make it a huge commitment and read the whole thing. You can just do anything and you don’t need context. You can just open it up and read one page and hopefully get something from that. 

Piper Klemm [00:06:35] Absolutely. So since we checked in last, I, I traveled home from California, and then I went to the American Equestrian Trade show in Dallas, which used to be separate but is now running concurrently with the Western Exposition. So it’s a whole lot of whole lot of horse things going on. And it was my first time in the Dallas location since it’s kind of been rebranded and reinvigorated. And it was an absolutely incredible experience. There were so many brands there. If anyone is thinking about going, I could not encourage you more to to go with your brand or to go check it out or to go as a buyer. Um, it just anyone who’s not excited about horse show fashion is is really not not paying attention right now. 

Traci Brooks [00:07:27] Yeah, there’s so much horse show fashion, there’s so much evolution in that there. It’s so much more technical now. It used to be everything was kind of frumpy and old school and uncomfortable and no technical fabrics. And now I feel like everything has evolved so much and it’s it’s so much more mainstream now. 

Piper Klemm [00:07:49] Absolutely. And and some of so many brands even have, you know, regular like day clothes. So I can shop for an equestrian brand for, you know, the few times that I’m not going to see another Equestrian at the barn. 

Piper Klemm [00:08:04] I got a pair of sneakers from Kerrits which I’m really excited about. And they’re just like regular, regular human sneakers. And, and Kerrits has their EQL line out, which has a lot of, you know, plaid fabrics that obviously I enjoy. 

Traci Brooks [00:08:23] Of. Course. 

Piper Klemm [00:08:24] There are so many new pairs of breeches and shirts and gloves and, you know, it’s just kind of walk through and you talk to everyone and you feel everything. And it’s there’s so many people that I hadn’t been able to see in a couple of years because we we’ve all been stuck in our own places. So it was it was wonderful to catch back up with old friends and, you know, anyone can go. I really encourage. 

Traci Brooks [00:08:52] Sounds amazing. 

Piper Klemm [00:08:54] Then I flew from there- I raced to the airport from my last meeting. I got in a taxi cab because I couldn’t even get Uber Lyft to load. It’s was a harrowing push to the airport. I finally got in late and drove to Ledges, and I got in at about 1:00 in the morning and I was like, ‘Going to kill it at the horse show tomorrow.’ And then at 4:00 in the morning, someone tried to get into my room, like someone who was clearly like drunk and thought it was their room was like pounding on the door and trying to in and like knocking on stuff. And I was like totally lizard brain, like the, like realization that you’re South Beloit, Illinois. So what is happening at the door? 

Traci Brooks [00:09:45] So what did you do? Hide under the bed? What happened? 

Piper Klemm [00:09:47] Pretty much. I just hid under the covers and it stopped. I did no action. You do not want to be with me in a fight. 

Traci Brooks [00:09:59] No, no. 

Traci Brooks [00:10:01] Or maybe you do, because you’ll run faster than me. 

Traci Brooks [00:10:05] So you just. You just ignored it and it went away? 

Piper Klemm [00:10:08] I ignored it and I went away, but I couldn’t get back to sleep for like, an hour. And then I got up and went to the horse show and got on and horse showed, which was as much as like, I traditionally like I’m not the biggest practicer on the circuit. This was even a little rough by my standards, and that I normally have like a day or two to lesson, but I literally like got to the Horse show in my show clothes having not ridden since the National. And like just got on, did three or four jumps in the schooling ring and went right in. 

Traci Brooks [00:10:48] Now, that is very Piper Klemm of you. 

Piper Klemm [00:10:51] It’s very Piper Klemm.

Traci Brooks [00:10:53] But guess what? I think, you know, some people say especially amateur, I guess only amateurs would say that’s maybe professionals. But some people say that they ride better when they’re hung over because they’re just they’re just kind of loose and and they don’t have the energy to be nervous. Maybe that was helpful to you. Maybe you were so exhausted and strung out that you just went on muscle memory and you didn’t have time to second guess anything because it worked out fine, right? 

Piper Klemm [00:11:21] Maybe. Maybe. 

Traci Brooks [00:11:23] But don’t do it again. I don’t recommend you do that. 

Piper Klemm [00:11:24] I’m not doing it again. I’m not doing it again. Oh, my gosh. I was so tired, by the time I got home, I was so, so destroyed.

Piper Klemm [00:11:33] So, yeah. So it was a really exciting, you know, weekend getting to ride again and getting to see Ruebs. And he just, you know, he’s he’s getting to be really solid. And we were having the whole rail debate online and, you know, he, we gave an example of what what definitely earned a 45 in any scoring system. I came around the corner so if you have been to Ledges, you get about like two strides, maybe three out of the corner before you’re jumping the jump. So it it really forces you to ride your track because if you don’t, you’re just you’re not in good shape. There’s no later recovery. So I come around by the Ingate and I shaved the turn, you know, just an inch or two and then like, just let the ingate, like suction vortex, like pull me into just an inch or two. And then of course, like that beautiful distance that was right there, like, completely disappears and, and Rueben just comes up to it and he just, like, clobbers at the front rail. And he’s like, ‘I got this!’ And. You know, he took good care of us. But, you know, that level of chip as a 60 minus the 15 would still be a 45. 

Traci Brooks [00:12:52] That’s good math right there. So tell me about the the debate about the rail, because it’s been an ongoing conversation. I know, but I know that you just you put something out on social media and there’s been a lot of chatter around that. 

Traci Brooks [00:13:08] Yeah. I mean, I, I judge a lot of local horse shows at this point, and I’ve watched a lot of rounds at that level. And, you know, having a lot of green ponies, you know, you really watch these rounds and it hurts Judging. It hurts watching. Even if you don’t have a dog in the fight to give some of these rounds a 45, when what’s a 55 or a 58 or a 62 is like kind of really not correct riding and or scary riding. When you have a round that’s fairly correct and fairly well done and you have to give it the 45. And so I wrote an article about my argument on making a rail a 15 point deduction rather than a strict 45 and like something like at pony finals last year we saw a ton of rails. I think as as rails get lighter and jumps are easier to move, we have these safety cups. I mean, there’s so many reasons why a rail in today’s world is different from a rail ten years ago is different from a rail 20 years ago. You know, horses can barely tap them as as we’ve all seen. And, you know, and I’m not, look, I think there’s another side to this argument and and I don’t dismiss it at all. You know it’s you know the other side is good jumping form isn’t good jumping form if the jump comes down you know and. A lot of people view it as a safety issue. Um. You know, if a horse the fact that a horse knows that a jump can come down as that, is that even correct training? Are we training them correctly? I mean, there’s so many arguments here, but I feel from my experience. Judging, you know, with my ponies coming up, you know, because I think you see a lot more score disparity, obviously, in the green ponies than you’re seeing in the professional hunter divisions. A 15 point deduction would knock horses out of the winning that shouldn’t win but also leave them in the mix. If you have rounds with a lot of other major errors. And I think that leaves it down to the judge’s discretion. So if you have an 88 at Harrisburg, you’re -15. Like it’s still a 73. You’re not going to win at Harrisburg. But if you’re, you know, at the in December watching the green ponies somewhere or if you’re at a more local show or if you know the course is just winning that day, you know, the judge has a little latitude to say, you know what, like, yes, they had a rail, but like even with the rail, this is a 62 and, you know, that’s going to win this class. So that’s going to be fifth, you know, not knock that horse out completely. 

Traci Brooks [00:15:59] I think it’s so true. And the judge’s discretion, I think everyone has to trust in that, that the judge is going to use a numerical system to just put the horses in the correct order. It’s not really so much about the number, because think about back in the times when we we didn’t have so many numerical scores and the judges just got to decide. So obviously they’re not letting the horse that had the rail win, but maybe the horse that had the rail, it’s going to be in front of the horse that got really fast enough to stride out and was dangerous. So I think there has to be some some latitude. And yeah, if you do something dangerous or scary or your horse jumps in poor style and has a rail because of that, that’s obviously going to be worse than a horse that barely touches it and the rail just rolls off. So I agree with you on that. And and in a big class, it’s not going to matter at the end of the day, because any horse with a rail is not getting a ribbon. But at the more local shows, when maybe there are fewer in the class and more people are having rail, it, it will make more of a difference. 

Traci Brooks [00:17:13] Yeah. You know, and I, you know, think about my rail last weekend, and it wouldn’t have made a difference. I mean, I chipped, clobbered, the jump, you know, Rueben put on his wings and rescued me. And like, that was a major error causing another major error, which is the rail I mean, that still would have been a 45. There are a lot of cases where a rail would still remain a 45. 

Traci Brooks [00:17:40] So true. And I think we just have to trust that our judges are trying to do it right because they are. I don’t think the argument that, oh, a judge is going to give someone if they have a rail on it’s only 15 points off, they’re going to give that person a hundred and then they’ll still end up with an 85 and still be able to get a good ribbon or win- no judges is doing that. So I know I know some people had mentioned that the judges would start to do math and try to try to impact the outcome of the class, but I really don’t think that’s the case. I really do think every judge is trying to do a good job. And the only thing they’re doing with numerical scores is putting the class in order. So you could win a class with a 76 and you’re still the best round in that class. Or you can win a class with a 92 and you’re the best round in that class. But I think at some point we’ve gotten so fixed on scores that we’ve lost sight of quality and objectivity, subjectivity. I don’t know, I think. I think every 90 is not the same and every 75 isn’t the same and every class isn’t the same. So I think you sort of have to know what what horse show you’re judging, what’s your audience and a high curve, I think it’s always more fun for the people who are showing, the spectators. I think anyone would rather win with a 90 than win with a 79. That’s way more fun. 

Piper Klemm [00:19:17] I also you know, I think the trust is a really important part of this. And and, you know, and so much of our sport is done by feel, you know, no matter how much. No matter how much you know and understand, it’s kind of these indescribable qualities, this this, this feel that lets people train horses. It’s feel that lets people train students well, it’s experience and and mileage and and truly just putting in the hours like understand all these processes. And so many people are unwilling to put their phone down and put in the hours and and if you if you are willing kudos but it’s also like people are almost looking for people to be untrustworthy with them. And I get it like every one of us has had a trainer wrong them every one of us has had a bad experience. Every one of us has invested in another human horse, barn, whatever, and had to be a terrible experience. And they want to protect themselves. And I get all these instincts. But at the end of the day, bravery is going forward and trusting new people until they prove you otherwise and trying to make these solid relationships and and having these long standing collaborations because you’re willing to be part of other people. And at some level, if you don’t trust your trainer, you need to find a new barn. If you don’t trust the judge, you need to skip that horse show. If you don’t, you know, trust the horse show that they can hire the judges. You know, you might need to find another circuit. And if there are no circuits that meet your standards or no trainers that meet your standards, I mean, maybe it’s time to look and that something might be a little unrealistic. 

Traci Brooks [00:21:07] Exactly. I think if the common denominator is you, the common denominator is you. But everyone’s trying to do a good job. And I think. I don’t know. I think it’s just good for the sport. If we if we trust our situations and just go forward thinking that everybody is doing the best job they can and most of the judges are trainers or were trainers or have been in our shoes when we are walking in the ring or standing at the ingate. And they know and they they’re sitting in that chair looking at it through our eyes and hoping that we can do well. I don’t think any judge is there to want to give low scores. I think the judges are rooting for everyone. They want to see good horses. They want to see good riding. They want to see people overcome adversity if they have a hard time, come back and do well and be rewarded for that. So I think everybody just. Has to have that mindset. I don’t I don’t think anyone is there to ruin anyone else’s day. 

Piper Klemm [00:22:14] Absolutely. And I feel like I shamed Rueben a little bit too much with my own mistakes. But he couldn’t have been better all weekend. And he I think he’s really it’s really clicking. At age 16, he’s coming into his prime. He’s coming into his prime. 

Traci Brooks [00:22:33] Well, he is. He’s an overgrown pony right? So ponies get good when they’re about 20. So you have that to look forward to. 

Piper Klemm [00:22:38] That’s good. Yeah, he was he was wearing his pony cooler,this weekend. 

Traci Brooks [00:22:46] Love it.

Piper Klemm [00:22:47] And we survived the Ledges warm up ring with all the Junior Hunters it too. 

Traci Brooks [00:22:54] And wait, was this the first time you did the three three amateur owners? 

Piper Klemm [00:22:58] I did it in September once, but I have only ridden like at the National since September. So we we had very few rides in prior to that since that. So I wasn’t sure if I would be too much of a hot mess to to make that happen again. But, you know. 

Traci Brooks [00:23:20] Defied the odds. 

Piper Klemm [00:23:22] Defied the odds. We did the handy round, which is really exciting cantering directly to fence one. So that was that was good. Reuben did a lot of turns that were were really intense which I asked him to do, but then had regrets.

Traci Brooks [00:23:39] At least you didn’t. At least you you didn’t have time to regret it. That’s the good thing about the Handy. So you don’t have time for second thoughts or regrets. You or Ruben. 

Piper Klemm [00:23:49] Nope, we were just like whipping around.  

Piper Klemm [00:23:54] He was so good. And then he was right back out in his paddock, enjoying his best life. So he’s he’s pretty excited to have a low key winter. Probably needs a body clip at some point, but we just kind of let him be hairy for one horse show so he could go right back out. 

Traci Brooks [00:24:13] I’m sure he appreciates that. And so now what? What’s on his agenda? Six more months and then another horse show? 

Piper Klemm [00:24:19] It probably he’ll probably get some some time off. You know in his style. I did ride him three days in a row. So. 

Traci Brooks [00:24:28] Piper, I have to change the subject. Really quickly because my husband just walked in. And he this might be a sacrilege. And I’m sorry if anyone listening to this is religious, but he is wearing a what do you even call that, a clerical collar? Basically, he’s wearing a black shirt with with like a white collar. A minister, A priest. Somehow we have to post this photo somewhere. We have a wedding happening at our house today because, horse people get married on Mondays. And I’m sorry, I’m just a little alarmed because he just walked by me in this black shirt with this white collar, and he’s about to marry our friends. 

Piper Klemm [00:25:15] Oh, my gosh. It is called a clerical collar. 

Traci Brooks [00:25:19] I mean, leave it to me to know that because. Yeah, I don’t I don’t know where I just pulled that from. But another friend of ours got him that, ordered it off of Amazon and thought it would be funny. I didn’t actually think he was going to wear it, but he just came around the corner and he has it on. So if anyone out there need any sort of service performed. Carleton is now an ordained minister. Wait. Piper, You helped him do that? 

Piper Klemm [00:25:45] Yeah. 

Traci Brooks [00:25:48] So if anyone need to get married or I don’t know what other kind of services you can actually perform, but. Yeah, give us a call. Sorry. Okay. I digress. 

Piper Klemm [00:26:03] All right, Well, perfect timing. We could take a quick break here and we’ll be back with our guests. 

Piper Klemm [00:26:40] Georgy Maskery-Segesman is the owner and operator of Whitethorn, LLC, a unique business model that develops equitation horses and show jumpers while mentoring and sponsoring ambitious and motivated riders. Georgy competed internationally up to the meter 50 grand prix and also has a solid foundation in dressage. With this experience, she successfully coached riders up to the meter 60 and to top placings in both national and regional medal finals. Georgy feels very strongly about education within the sport and hosts multiple clinics at her farm throughout the year and has also created and sponsored multiple equitation events such as the American Tradition of Excellence Equitation Challenge held at Blenheim in San Juan Capistrano, California. 

Piper Klemm [00:28:52] Getting a strong start in California. Mavis Spencer spent her formative junior years training with Dick Carvin and Susie Shore at Meadow Grove. Mavis jumped at the chance to work with top show jumpers in order to expand her knowledge and involvement of the sport. Spending six years mostly on the ground, managing horses for top professionals such as Kent Farrington, Darragh Kenny and Lorenzo DeLuca. Mavis was given the opportunity to jump back in the saddle in the fall of 2014 and has since accumulated numerous wins on several mounts at the FEI level, including the under 25 World Cup qualifying classes, and represented the U.S. jumping team at the FEI Jumping Nations Cup in Spain and Portugal in the fall of 2022. Welcome back to the plaidcast, Mavis and Georgy. 

Mavis Spencer [00:29:37] Thank you. Thank you for having us. 

Piper Klemm [00:29:39] So let’s start with really exciting news from this fall. Mavis, this was your first time showing and in the pink coat and making a Nation’s Cup appearance. Can you talk a little bit about what a Nations cup is for, for riders who who don’t see competition at that level in their local area, and then how that kind of evolved to you getting on the team. 

Mavis Spencer [00:30:05] Yeah. So a Nations Cup competition is where you have five riders that are selected by the chef d’equipe for each country. And there are a couple of different levels. So we competed at the CSIO three star level, which is sort of the developing tour level. And then it goes up until, you know, five star competition obviously there. It’s the third championship shows as well, the WEG European championships, Olympic format. And this, I would say, is something that at least a if you have aspirations to be a top level jumper rider that everyone wants to be able to say they can do at some stage. And Georgy, when she approached me about coming to work for her about three years ago now, said that her goal was to build a string of jumpers and to jump on some Nations Cup teams and represent the United States. And it’s funny, you know, we were sitting there on the fence, I think, down at Hunter eight in Thermal, and I was like, okay, that sounds great. That’s something that’s been a dream of mine as well since I first started riding. But obviously, you know, in this sport it’s very difficult to find the people to support you to do that by riding horses that are good enough. But, Georgy. You know, doesn’t ever go into anything without giving it 100% and doing whatever it takes to make things like that happen. So it was really exciting that Curly came into our lives- not in that capacity. But, you know, it’s been a journey with him and to bring him up to that level. And I think for both of us to get selected to go to Europe and compete on our First Nations Cup teams was was really special and a big achievement. And hopefully it’s the beginning. 

Piper Klemm [00:32:01] So, Georgy, you had this vision, as Mavis alluded to, for the for a program in Southern California that was very different than a lot of people were doing. And anytime you try to do something different and exceptional, there are a lot of naysayers and I know a lot of people told you it was impossible. So can you talk a little bit about what the vision was for Whitethorne and how it’s evolved over the last decade? 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:32:28] Well, I think for me, okay, as a child, you when people ask you what’s your goal, I think so many people say to go to the Olympics and that when I was a kid riding. My goal was to do something great in the sport as long as it was with horses, I wanted to do something exceptional. And through my own riding career, I was never going to be able to do it at the highest level like Mavis did. I jumped to the Grand Prix. But my nerves and my nervousness and fear would eventually get in the way of and I acknowledged that. So but that still didn’t diminish that dream, that seed that was there, that I just wanted to grow into something exceptional. And so obviously Whitethorne sells and leases horses, and I want to make everything attainable to everybody. So if you have a lot of money, great. If you don’t have a lot of money, you can still do this. And and but I still wanted to feel as though we could do something, you know, at the top of the sport, whether it be in the Equitation or the showjumping. My personal goals are obviously to go to the Olympics with Mavis, but also to get a top ribbon at national medal finals. And I think that, you know, if you keep on showing up and you work hard and you develop milestones and markers along the way and say, okay, look, I’m going to get to this point, and that’s and then reassess and get to the next point and reassess, I think that that’s that’s what it’s all about. And that’s how you get to big dreams and big goals. So but I think that the goal for a Whitethorne in general is to make it feel accessible to anyone. If you can ride and if you have a dream and if you keep on showing up and if you work really hard and have a bit of luck, it’s possible. And I think that’s what Whitethorne all about. 

Piper Klemm [00:34:40] So, Mavis, I know being around Georgy, her enthusiasm and optimism is is infectious. You’ve been doing this sport a long time prior to that. Can you talk a little bit about how that hope and that that positivity has has changed your outlook and, you know, and enabled you to have the success you’ve had over the last three years? 

Mavis Spencer [00:35:02] You know, the sport in and of itself is very humbling when you’re working with horses. They have days where they show up and maybe they aren’t feeling 100% ready to go to work sort of thing. And so I think you have to be able to accept that. Find ways to work around that. But like Georgy said, you know, I think so much of it is what you are willing to put in and give them and how hard you’re willing to work, even if that means working around and having a day like that. I think having someone like Georgy who is, you know, she shows up every day with a smile on her face, If there is something that maybe doesn’t go exactly how we want it to, it’s, you know, she finds a way to redirect. It’s never in a negative capacity. It’s what can we take away from this? What have we learned? How can we do better the next time? And for me, having someone that has that mentality towards things gives you so much confidence. Because again, you know, if you go in the ring in a really big class and you have one down, it’s very easy to just really focus on that as opposed to thinking about the positives and the takeaway and honestly remembering the fact that there is going to always be another class and another opportunity to hopefully fix the mistakes that you made. And to me, having that support system is so important. I think it gives you so much confidence to go in and not necessarily that you have to be perfect every time, but that you learn from the mistakes. And again, you know, I’ve been doing this a long time and I’ve been really fortunate in the people that I’ve worked with. But Georgy is exceptional and I genuinely haven’t been around someone like her who shows up every day, who works honestly harder than anyone else and is not willing to give up on the dream. She just redirects and finds a way to make everything work and happen. And she’s got so many things on her plate that she’s juggling constantly. So it’s really it’s, I guess maybe a good word. It’s like inspiring to be around her, you know? So for me, I think that’s that’s something that I’ve really gotten from her in our time together so far. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:37:20] Aww, thank you. 

Traci Brooks [00:37:24] You two are such a great team, and it seems like amazing chemistry that you have and you sort of are there when you need each other, but you do have a division of labor. Is there something unofficially. Can you walk us through? Like, who chooses the horses, who- do create their training programs together? Georgy we know that you do a lot of the business end of things. Can you kind of just tell us how that works between you both? 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:37:52] So I think that, first of all, my partner in Europe he’s a huge part of all of this and he has a very large breeding program. And a lot of these horses that we have have come up through that breeding program and or he finds them as young horses. He so he’s been a massive support. What ends up usually happening is he’ll send a couple over to us with the idea sent me videos. I look at the videos they show Mavis. So we decide, okay, we like this. This looks interesting or we don’t like that. No, that’s not going to work. And and the horses come over and then we once they get here, we assess and decide, you know, is this going to have enough blood to be a jumper or should we redirect and do it as an equitation horse or it might be a hunter. So that’s something that we really do together. I, I always believe that everybody should have tasks within the business. So Mavis’s role is the jumpers specifically. She is running that group of horses. She’s looking out for their fitness. She’s very focused on that. I don’t she’s not usually teaching the kids. Once in a while she’ll step in. I’ll be like, I’ve got so much on my plate. Can you teach a jumper lesson or whatever if you run to the ring with this one. But in general, I really feel like. Trying to go to the top of the sport. I don’t think that you can do everything. So I really feel as though her focusing on her jumper fleet and putting them where they need to be. We have a discussion at the beginning of the week we did yesterday and about what the plan was for one of the seven year olds and then Curly and then, you know, and and building out the idea and the plan. And then as we get through the classes, then we say, okay, maybe we need to maybe Curly’s a little fresh. We do one more. Maybe he’s just perfect. So we’re not going to show him again until, you know, until the Grand Prix. Those are all conversations. I it’s my job to earn the money, to make sure that to make sure that the farm is paid for. To make sure that the horse sales happen, to make sure that, you know, my partner makes his money so that I very much understand that that’s my job. And and Mavis is the one that I try to give her room as an artist and an athlete to to develop her string of horses. I am a ground person. So, you know, I watch the horses jump. I know them very well. And and then after we have a class, if we have one down, we’ll have a conversation about how we what could I have done better as a ground person? What could she have done better as a rider? And sometimes she’s feeling, you know, I’m not seeing and something I’m seeing, maybe she’s not feeling. So we have that conversation and then build a plan to the next. You know, I also my role is also to run the business at home and teach. And, you know, I love teaching something I’m very passionate about. So so I do that. And and then everyone within the business has their own roles and everybody understands those roles very, you know, very fundamentally that, you know, like, for instance, Kilian stays home and runs the business at home and Chelsea helps me organize at the horse shows and things like that. And then the guys, certain guys go on the road, certain guys stay home. One of the guys runs the rehab. So and we try not to co-mingle those roles. We try to really make it so that you’re doing the best you can within that. So. 

Mavis Spencer [00:41:58] Georgy does a lot is the moral of the story. She’s. She’s the captain running the ship, manning the sails, all the things. And, you know, it gives us all the opportunity to be successful in the roles that she’s allowed us to do, which is, which is rare and really nice. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:42:15] But I don’t know what I don’t want anybody to diminish. The fact that Mavis is role is so integral to the to the success of the program and, you know, and giving her room to create and build and focus. And that is that’s that’s that’s non-negotiable. Going on the journey that we want to go on to the Olympics or to the nations cups or whatever, where whatever we’re whatever we’re planning on, she has to have the room to do that. And it’s my role to give her that room and to and to make sure that she’s not overcommitted everywhere. And that’s that’s that’s how I feel. It can be successful because if she’s running off to the meter jumpers when you know and has to choose between the course walk and the meters like that, I don’t that’s just not going to work. So, so I don’t want Mavis to diminish what she does. My job is to facilitate her and the horse’s success. However, I need to do that, and I fundamentally understand that is my job. 

Piper Klemm [00:43:30] I also think it’s a really fascinating kind of conversation on advocacy. Like Andre Dignelli wrote an article for the Plaid Horse earlier last year that was basically like, if if you don’t have an advocate of someone you know, you’re not going to make it very far in this sport. And and I was sitting watching the professional divisions, the professional hunter divisions at Harrisburg, realizing kind of that every every professional that walked in, like I knew who their, you know, advocate was, a lot of times it was their spouse. Sometimes it was someone else. But it’s this sport is so collaborative. I loved you, Georgy, using the word artist to describe Mavis. I definitely think, you know, riding at that level for sure is art. But, you know, I would venture to say, Mavis, you’ve probably never had an advocate in quite the same way in your career. 

Mavis Spencer [00:44:25] No, definitely not. I, I think I read that article Andre wrote like 30 or 40 times, and I even I think I did a long post about it, because to me, that was something growing up. We kind of joke about it, but my mom always said, you know, never forget, I am your advocate and being, you know, kind of snarky kids. We always would kind of make fun of her. But when I read that, I suddenly realized how much that means at the end of the day, knowing that you have someone in your corner again, that’s going to be positive and support you and not necessarily just in a like a supportive fashion as far as your mentality goes, but someone that’s willing to like, you know, do everything that Georgy does to give me the opportunity to to do this, because I think it is both of our dreams at the end of the day to, you know, like she was saying, jump the nation’s cups, jump more teams compete at a top level sort of thing. But, you know, you have to remember it’s from a financial standpoint as well. It’s a time commitment, It’s effort that everyone is putting in. And I think that having someone. Who does advocate for you is. In not many ways, because there are so many different ways that need to be advocated for. I think it is very rare to have someone like that. And I do think that having, like you said, a lot of top professionals have realized that. But I think that, you know, the interesting conversation that Andre brought up was that kids need to sort of have that person or find a situation where they feel that they have that. So, again, I think, you know, talking about this and it’s just such an important thing to bring to bring in front of people and sort of make them aware of. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:46:17] And I think that for for me, I, I never really had a person that was like, you can do this. Like, I didn’t I remember when I first went to when I first decided I was going to sell my first horse. My parents, my father specifically was like, You’ve never sold a horse. What makes you think you can? Well, that’s not exactly like you can do this, you know, And I’m thinking, I’m going to sell a horse. I’m going to it’s going to be okay. I’m going to do it. And I remember I asked him if he wanted to go into partnership with me on a horse and he’s like, No, because you’re just going to ride it. You’re not going to sell it. And I think that my whole professional career, I have been searching for a person who shares the dream. And inevitably, you’re going to have days when you’re a little bit down or you’re starting to question, is this dream a reality? Or how are we really going to do this? Or maybe you’re in touch disappointed because you know, the horse that you thought was going to go all the way suddenly is showing you things that are maybe in the back of your mind saying, Oh, I don’t think so. You know, And I mean, that’s just in general, that’s with equitation horses, hunters, you know, jumpers. But I feel like because it’s not all the smooth ascension to the top, right. It’s not, you know, as you get closer to the top of the mountain, it gets rockier and harder to get there. And you’re going to slip back a couple of times and you’ve got to fight to keep going up. And you need that person, that standing behind you, pushing you up, saying, okay, we’re not going to slip past this point. It’s okay. And I feel like, you know, in my team with Mavis and, you know, and Chelsea and Killian, you know, I feel like I built that group that says. That says, you know, it’s going to be okay, we can do this. We’re going to we’re going to boot and rally, you know, and and I think that, you know, it as you go through your career, you’re going to identify those people, whether they’re advocating for you in terms of, you know, what I do for Mavis, or whether they’re just kind of saying, listen, my partner, best example, every time I call him up and be like, Oh, this happened, I can’t believe it. And he says to me, It’s everywhere the same. And at first I didn’t understand that, and now I got it. And when he says that to me, somehow it makes me feel like I’m not alone. So I think that, you know, that that finding that person that can lift you up, that can encourage you through the journey, that you recognize that every day isn’t going to be a 90 or a clean round. You know that if that you’ve got someone there that’s willing to share that journey with you. 

Piper Klemm [00:49:15] And, you know, and I totally, you know, empathize with the the other side of things, too, because I’m I’m more where you are, Georgy. And that, you know, I don’t ride at any big level but I want to support and I want to advocate for for people who I really believe are doing a good job. And it’s hard on this side of things to everyone says that they want to ride at that level or, you know, or grow their business or be part of elevating and, you know, finding someone to to invest in and really share in that that journey is is it’s hard on both sides, which I think is makes it such a complex problem. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:49:58] Mhm. Yeah, for sure. For sure. But I think that at the end of the day, I think that, you know, I say this to I say this to my to my kids a lot. I say this to my own daughter specifically as you get further up the ladder and and things get tougher, you have to be willing to work and do everything that you can to get to where that to where you need to go in terms of your goal. So it’s you know, I one of my favorite movies is Devil Wears Prada. And and and it’s so funny, in the beginning of the movie, it’s like a million girls would kill for this job. As you get to the higher level. There are so many people that are willing to work harder and do more. And I feel like the definition of success is that you’re willing to do more than most and and surrounding yourself with people that are like minded in that that are all marching in the same direction at the same time. I think that that really that really helps helps in the success and helps in the journey. 

Traci Brooks [00:51:14] I think everyone thinks they’re willing to work hard. But I don’t think because we all say we are, but because we haven’t been through it and everyone says they want to go to the Olympics, but no one no one knows what that really takes. And my question, I guess, maybe, maybe Mavis, for you. Okay, you want to go to the Olympics and Georgy is helping you do that. How do you work backwards to create the stepping stones to that? Because I think I’m at the show right now and I’m sitting at the jumper ring. If you go ask 90% of the people here what their goal is, they’re going to say, go to the Olympics. But I think you two have done such a great job of really spelling it out and really creating attainable stepping stones to that. Can you tell us what that looks like for you? 

Mavis Spencer [00:52:07] Yeah. I think, you know, again, it’s hard because Georgy and I are both in the position of obviously not having done it before. So we are fortunate in the fact that we have, you know, the biggest thing I think obviously is having a horse that would be capable of doing that in the first place. Granted, it wasn’t a horse that we went out and bought. It’s one that we’ve made. But I think that to me is something that, you know, is kind of the biggest thing. And it sounds a little silly and I think people take it for granted. But to be at that level, like Georgy was saying, you know, there are moments where we have other ones that maybe they do something where it makes you question a little bit what the capability is. But at that time, at the same time, I think sort of staying the course and creating, like Georgy said before, milestones, saying, you know, the first year with Curly, when we started, our goal was and this was back, I would say probably in Michigan in July, was to jump the two star at the end of the year in thermal. We were, you know, and then it was creating a plan and picking shows and picking classes where you felt like this was a good place to step up. And then again, we were fortunate because, you know, part of it is, I think, having the hard work in there, obviously times where things don’t go to plan. But I think there is so much in our control that you can, you know, when you’re aiming for a specific class. And again, not that everything works out perfectly, but you’re moving in a direction of building toward something. So that first year when we jumped, he jumped his first FEI show in December and he was clear in the first ranking class and then he was double clear and fourth in the Grand Prix. And then we came back to Thermal in January and wanted to step up to the three star ranking classes. And obviously we had the EHV last year, but we sort of made a plan around what our sort of bigger goals were and built back from there and then filling in the gaps. It was, you know, what exercises do we need to do, what do we need to work on? What are his strengths? What are his weaknesses? When is the best time to have the vet come out and check in in between, just to make sure that, you know, his fitness is right, his soundness is good. And I think there are so many different little pieces that go into it at that level that people don’t necessarily take into consideration, again, how much it takes to get there. I think going forward, the nice thing about having gone to Europe this fall wasn’t necessarily just that we got to have that experience, but we went over there and made the most of it. I had one down in Spain in that Nations Cup, and then he went and was double clear in the CSIO Grand Prix on the Sunday and third. And then we built on that and then he was one of only three double clear rounds in the Nations cup in Portugal. And I think now going forward, again, it’s not just that we’ve had that experience, but we made it a very positive one. So I would say going forward this year, you know, our goal is to build on that and it’s a little difficult to say as far as doing more nations cups, you know, what will end up happening there. But I think we have our plan of what shows we want to do, what our classes we want to aim for are. So that’s kind of how at least for us, where we are sort of doing it in that respect. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:55:42] I would also sorry, I would also say, okay, I’m the planner. I have to say I have a plan or I have a plan for the plan that doesn’t work for the next plan. 

Mavis Spencer [00:55:54] That is what works with both of us, though I don’t think it would work if one of us was like, It’s all going to be fine, you know, because.. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:56:00] I mean I do say that a lot. I do think it’ll be fine. 

Mavis Spencer [00:56:05] Yes but, you also have a plan for the plan for the plan to be fair. So that’s where it’s less. You’re not just like, oh, I think we should go here and then you know… 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [00:56:15] Yeah for sure. but in the, in the beginning. So rewinding to the beginning, um, first of all, I feel we live in a microclimate in California, and I think that that is, first of all, before you get started, I think you’re a little up against it because we’re so far away from the other horse shows on the East Coast. But in the beginning we didn’t need to go and do those horse shows like it would have been for me financially sound or or for the horse in terms of his growth. He wasn’t ready for that. And so I would say that we utilize for a lot of our jumpers and just for getting in the ring, we utilize a lot of local horse shows because as long as a seasonal footing jumps or jumps, you have to have decent course designing. But you know, we utilize a lot of the LA shows and okay, there was a couple of times when we went to Hanson Dam and rented out the ring and built our own course there and built our own Grand Prix because it was COVID. We couldn’t jump, you know, and but we did a lot of stuff locally. And then when we felt like we’re ready, and the conversation, we had an older jumper that was jumping in the meter sixties with Mavis just to get her back going again. And we had just got we had gotten Curly and he was supposed to the old jumper was supposed to go to Michigan, and Mavis and I looked at each other and I was like, Honestly, I know that that means that you’re not going to necessarily be jumping, you know, the biggest grand prix there with this horse. But I think that we should take the younger one. Curly to Michigan, just to go jump the mete 30’s and 35s. And a long time ago, I had a conversation with John Madden and he told me that, they will keep their horses jumping the meter thirties and getting super, super, super broke. And then once they’re really well trained and broke and listening and they could do all the inside turns and it’s just perfect. Then they can go ahead and move right up. And so that kind of resonated with me. So I said to Mavis, I think that we should take Curly. I was kind of bracing for her response because I thought she’s going to be like, What are you crazy? But she agreed. And she’s like, You know what? I think let’s focus on the future. So we did and and we just jumped the meter 30 and 35 and had time faults, but got in the ring and developed the horse and then came home and, you know, and then started moving him along. And it wasn’t until the end of that year that he jumped his first meter 40. But it was but developing the horses at home, developing the horses locally and then occasionally going out and, you know, and trying something new just to get in a different venue. I think that that’s really important for the growth, you know, of of of a jumper and and like we’re talking about the journey. And then from there I felt like I felt like we could we could start to say, okay, now we’re going to get our our sights set on some bigger things. Once we started jumping clean and in the in the two stars, in the three stars, then it was like, okay, now I think that we can actually go and and jump, you know, on a Nations Cup team. So then that’s when Mavis and I, you know, really put our feelers out and said, you know, would you be interested in us? And we did actually apply for what was the one, the one in Lisbon, right. And we actually ended up not going. They didn’t think that we were ready. So instead we went to Devon and then and then they and then they did use us for Spain and Portugal, which was amazing. And as much as you know, I was a little disappointed we didn’t get to Lisbon. It was the right thing for the development of the horse to wait and get those valuable miles at Devon and Michigan. Because then when we went to Spain and Lisbon, we were or Spain and Portugal, we were way more ready. So but, you know, it’s a little bit again for us using the local horse shows, using training at home and then, you know, stepping out and putting our toe in the pond in a in a in a deeper pond and then coming back to the West Coast and and producing results and teaching the horse how to win and all that kind of stuff. I think that that’s that’s all part of how we get to the ultimate goal because. 

Piper Klemm [01:01:05] At the end of the day, you can’t peak 52 weeks a year and the amount of repetition it takes to train. The horses and riders both to peak. When you want them to peak, you do need the time at at the more local shows and and to get your as you said perfectly. Get the jobs and get the repetition in there. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [01:01:24] And realistically the the experience you know I mean it’s it is really important for us you know jumping in Kentucky in the Rolex stadium versus, you know, jumping at a it’s a Temecula or thermal. It’s just they’re all different. They’re all different venues. They’re all different types of questions. And it’s funny, going east, I said to Mavis, we were walking the meter 45s and, you know, at home, you know, you walk into here 45, they’re big enough, and walking the meter 45s at Kentucky. And I was like, Do they have a different measuring stick or did I suddenly shrink? I mean, it was just it’s a very different, every place you go. It’s just a very different sport and and understanding what that sport is, you know, before you get there as you go along. I think it’s also very it’s very valuable. So getting up and getting out is important, but also, you know, utilizing the horse shows at home to build and grow are important too so. 

Mavis Spencer [01:02:30] I think also the time at home, you know, we- it’s not wasted. It’s not that we show a lot, but like the first year when everything shut down for COVID, I only jumped I hadn’t shown in two years. And I think I jumped to maybe three classes at Thermal before the rain and then COVID. And for the next couple of months we were at home, which was a really great time. You know, we changed the course every week. We jumped in different rings, like Georgy said, we rented the arena at Hanson Dam and took jumps over there and we came back in to the show season at the end of June and straight away won the Grand Prix in Temecula. It was a little bit the same thing after the EHV shut down when Curly came out. You know, he at that stage done now. Four ranking classes, three FEI shows at 145 level, and he came out and won the 150 National Grand Prix in Temecula after that break. So I think there is also a lot to be said for not necessarily thinking that shows are the only place to get them experience. I think there is so much you can do at home, you know, as far as working with them and the homework basically. And then when you show up for the test essentially, which is the horse show, you’re that much more prepared for it. 

Traci Brooks [01:03:48] I love that you guys blaze your own trail and you think outside of the box and you don’t just try to to just sort of stay in the lane that that might work for some other people and that you you keep it very unique and you’re doing what’s best for your horse. 

Piper Klemm [01:04:03] We’re going to take a quick break here and be back with our guests. 

Traci Brooks [01:05:45] I want to switch gears and ask Georgy about the Whitethorne Equitation class that you created. I think that has been such a great thing for California and for the equitation world in general. Can you tell us how that came to be? Well, it came to be because I was playing around with a little bit of dressage and I really enjoyed that when I would go and horse show. I would get I would get my test back and it would have all the comments on the side and, you know, you could really go home and work on that. So if I was doing a shoulder in and they said, Listen, too much angle or not enough bend. And I kept on seeing that same comment over and over again with the shoulder, and I could come home and be like, All right, I need to address this because I’m getting this information over and over again from these judges that this is what they’re seeing. And so that was the seedling that started it. I also felt as though so the equitation, other than getting our points for Medal Finals and things like that, I didn’t really see any big prizes. I really remember back in the day that was a $25,000 Equitation championship at Del Mar and everyone came to watch and it was an open championship and and that was really exciting. So I thought, you know, why not do a class where it’s open to juniors and amateurs and make it three foot three so a larger group of people can do it and make it so that the junior and amateur wins a saddle. Like, I think that’s really exciting. Back in the day, I always wanted to win a saddle and and do a little bit of a trainer incentive because a lot of trainers put a lot of time and effort into things and you know and the reward is their kids doing well in the ring. But I mean it would be nice to have a little extra financial reward. So that was where I put the 10,000 up. And then and then with the the comments, I thought, what if we had the judges sit with scribes and they and the riders could get some information from the judge as they’re watching their round so it wouldn’t be like after the class, Hey, did you remember my number or whatever the my number is? No, they could actually write down their impressions and maybe that would be something that could help their growth. And and so we did that. And then I asked my friend Tonya Johnson, who is a sports psychologist, if she would come and do a sports psychology presentation and even work with the riders the second day about their mental preparedness and put this all together in an experience where it’s, you know, a national medal finals type, of course, and where it’s in a really beautiful setting at the Oaks and at the Ritz Carlton. And I have to say Alex Rheinheimer and Melissa Brandes, they really saw my vision and were really, really enthusiastic about it and have done an unbelievable job. So and it’s become something that people really want to do. I mean, most of the year people are like, Hey, texting me, when is when is your class? What, what week is your class? And I’m like, honestly, I really don’t know. Check in with Blenheim. But every year people want to come back and do it. And it was really just to excite people a little bit about the acquisition and, you know, and get some feedback back and demystify it realistically. Because a lot of times you’re standing at the ingate, people like, I don’t understand why you didn’t get a ribbon and obviously with judging. There’s always a preference. There’s always something that people, you know, think is more important and maybe the next judge does so. So it was really I thought it was really an opportunity to get people that information. And then I also really try to make sure it’s somebody that’s judging national medal finals and maybe the other person is a trainer always from the East Coast. So So you’re not really so they don’t really know anyone here. So they come in, you know, looking at it fresh, not not having any preconceived notions. So so that was that was the idea behind it. And it’s it’s really taken off and it’s really become something very fun to be a part of. 

Piper Klemm [01:10:23] And even just, you know, this simplicity of putting the three, three riders out on the grass, out on that on the Grand Prix field and making it a really special day, you know, has such a huge excitement factor and I think helps people aspire to the bigger classes where they really get to feel what that energy is, is going to be like for them down the line when they when they do their first Grand Prix or something like that. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [01:10:48] Yeah. And I think for me the Grand Prix feel was really important because we have the CPHA foundation finals and it just always seemed to be that everybody would try and go out there and it would, you know, people didn’t get the opportunity to do the equitation on the Grand Prix field so much. It’s a little bit better now. They do some more classes out there, but originally it was about, Let’s get prepared for this stuff. Let’s do some things that we wouldn’t normally do. So by putting that out there and and allowing people to kind of get the mileage out there, I think it really helped for their medal finals. So that was also a motivating factor, I would say. 

Piper Klemm [01:11:32] I think, Georgy, there is this kind of there’s a little bit of a sense where you’re you’re as brave as you have to be with the business. And I know that you kind of have had to make this work and it’s created such a strong business. But I also think that that there’s a little magic in it having to work a little bit. Can you talk about the pressure, but also how much it’s inspired you to to really. Not have a fallback plan to this. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [01:12:05] Yeah. I mean, first of all, the bravery part, I mean, you can ask Mavis, I. I’m not. I believe that we need that. I believe that we can change our sport. I believe that we can be a part of something absolutely unbelievable if we all work together. I I’m always worried. I think that’s what spurs me on, is that I’m always where I am. I don’t want to say I’m a nervous person because I’m not nervous in terms of day to day. And when I commit my mind to something, I believe that I can do it. I don’t. And I believe if it’s not going well, I just have to work a little harder at it and just look at it a little different. And I think Mavis could speak to this where she’s like, You’re doing great. Like, I don’t think I’m doing great. But, um, but I think that. I don’t know. I think that you I think you have to envision what you want the sport to be. And I think that we all have that capability to change things and make little adjustments that eventually turn the sport into what we’d like to see it be down the road. 

Piper Klemm [01:13:28] thank you so much, Mavis and Georgy, for joining us. 

Georgy Maskrey-Segesman [01:13:32] Yes. of course! Thank you again for having us.

Piper Klemm [01:15:12] To learn more about anything we’ve discussed on today’s show, visit You can find show notes at Follow the Plaid Horse on all the social medias. You can subscribe to the print edition of the Plaid Horse magazine at Please write and review the plaidcast anywhere you listen to it. And if you enjoy this episode please share it with your friends, I will see you at the ring!