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Piper speaks with Dianne Grod about her lifetime with horses. Brought to you by Taylor, Harris Insurance Services. Listen in!
GUESTS AND LINKS:
- Host: Piper Klemm of The Plaid Horse Magazine
- Guest: Dianne Grod has excelled with Thoroughbreds, Arabians, Quarter Horses, and warmbloods for over 65 years. She won Grand Prix and Puissance classes, represented the United States in two separate Nations Cup classes, team penned, was an exercise rider on the track, scored national wins with hunters, and coached others to success all the way up to the Grand Prix Level. Dianne won the CPHA Lifetime Achievement Award in 2014, was inducted into the VHSA Hall of Fame in 2012, was the trainer and rider of The Godfather, who was also inducted into the CPHA Lifetime Equine Hall of Fame, managed numerous horse shows, rode and trained an Arabian to the USEF Horse of the Year, took the VHSA Jumper Champion of the year award on a homebred, and won year-end awards in team penning, among countless other accolades. Dianne is currently a clinician, a USEF “R” judge and a certified appraiser.
- Title Sponsor: Taylor, Harris Insurance Services, Taylor, Harris Insurance Services (THIS) was founded in 1987 to provide specialized insurance for all types of equine risk. THIS places their policies with the highest rated and most secure carriers, meticulously selected for reliability and prompt claims settlement. THIS is proud of their worldwide reputation for responsive and courteous service, and welcomes the opportunity to discuss your equine insurance needs and provide you with a quote.
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- Sponsors: American Stalls, Purina Animal Nutrition, World Equestrian Center, America Cryo, BoneKare, Show Strides Book Series, With Purpose: The Balmoral Standard. Good Boy, Eddie, HITS Horse Shows, Great American Insurance Group and Cheval Press
This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.
Piper Klemm: This is The Plaidcast. I’m Piper Klemm, publisher of The Plaid Horse Magazine. And coming up today on episode 390, I talk with Dianne Grod about her lifetime with horses. This episode is brought to you by Taylor Harris Insurance Services. Dianne Grod has excelled with thoroughbreds, Arabians, quarter horses and warm bloods for over 65 years. She won Grand Prix and Puissance classes representing the United States in two separate Nations Cup classes. Team Penn was an exercise rider on the track, scored national wins with hunters and coached others to success all the way up to the Grand Prix level. Dianne won the CPHA Lifetime Achievement Award in 2014 and was inducted into the VHSA Hall of Fame in 2012 and was also the trainer of the Godfather who was inducted into the CPHA Lifetime Equine Hall of Fame. Additionally, Dianne managed numerous horse shows, rode and trained in a radiant to USCF Horse of the Year, took a VHSA Jumper Champion of the Year award on a homebred and won multiple awards in team penning and other disciplines. Dianne is currently a clinician, a USCF Large R judge since 1976 and a certified appraiser. Welcome to The Plaidcast, Dianne.
Dianne Grod: Thank you for having me.
Piper Klemm: You’ve seen the sport through a lot of waves. Can you talk to us a little bit about growing up riding and what that was like for you?
Dianne Grod: Well, I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm and my dad had a passion for horses. And he started out by riding a horse to school and keeping the horse there while he was in school and riding back home. So that started his passion, which translated to mine. I don’t know where he got his information that he was passing on to me, but needless to say, it was a little primitive. We formed a little team and from an early age, he wanted to buy and sell ponies at that time. And so I got a lot of experience riding crazy ponies that nobody else wanted that my dad decided I should train, which was like the blind leading the blind. But so and he fox hunted, so I fox hunted at an early age. I think I went on my first hunt when I was five. That was with Potomac Hunt in Maryland, and even did a little steeple chasing. I won my first point-to-point race, and then the second race, I had discovered boys, and so my horse wasn’t really fit enough, and so we wrecked. That was the end of the point-to-point era. And I stayed off and on that farm until I moved to California in 1965. And I got a lot of help from the neighborhood grooms, that particularly Johnny Jackson, who worked for the K’s, they had a very successful show stable, and Johnny ran that and did a lot of in-hand stuff. But he was a great all-around horseman, and happy to offer advice whenever needed. So I got a lot of advice from him. And it was just a different time, just a different time, because there were no horse trainers around. To get knowledge, you had to be a working student, which I did with a lot of different people. So, you know, I was very lucky.
Piper Klemm: Tell us about California. I think it’s hard to imagine now how much behind, maybe, the East Coast California was back then.
Dianne Grod: Well, and it wasn’t very appreciated. I mean, I actually remember myself when I was still in Maryland, and Jimmy Williams came to Washington, and they were like a curiosity, because no West Coast people had ever gone to the indoor shows and stuff. Not many, at least. But yes, it changed a lot. I even remember myself being somewhat biased until I discovered how wrong I was. But when I moved to California, I became the oddity. And I have to say, the only people that really welcomed me at that time was Jimmy Williams, Barbara Wirth. She was a wonderful sort of a mentor. I mean, she’d pop over and give me advice at horse shows and stuff. And I loved her. She was great. Connie Blackston, he was originally from Maryland. And so he was very welcoming, but it was a very hard group to fit into when I came. I mean, that was a long, long time ago. So I was like an invader from the East Coast, but that’s all point.
Piper Klemm: Talk to us about what horse shows were like then. I think a lot of people have seen the really classic photo of you jumping the absolutely massive fence and a huge crowd. And we have so many advances in our community, but we have less, I would say, entertainment quotient at horse shows today.
Dianne Grod: Yeah, I would agree. The shows were, I don’t wanna say they were more fun then, but they definitely weren’t like the business of those today. And most of the horse shows had all breeds, all disciplines at the same show, showing in the same day. So you got to sit and watch, and Susie Hutchinson, a dear friend of mine, and we’ve talked about it. We were exposed to the best of all disciplines at those shows. So you could sit there and learn from what you were watching, like the turning, you know, the reigning horses, like their approach to turning and so many other things. I mean, like gated horse people, I trained for gated horse person. In fact, Shanda, that’s, I don’t know which, you’re probably talking about a puissance. Is that true?
Piper Klemm: Yeah, but I mean, even just even the more general pictures of jumping Grand Prix and stuff, they’re huge crowds.
Dianne Grod: Huge crowds and huge jump. You weren’t limited height-wise how you could set a course in those days. Of course, now you are, but it was so fun being a part of the beginning of it on the West Coast, I have to say. And the first horse I had belonged to a guy named Dr. Brumfield. He was about well over six foot, and he would ride this quarter horse mare. I mean, she would jump around with him and everything. He’d have to pick his legs up over the jump because she wasn’t very big. And then they asked me what they called us. This was 1968. They called us and said, you know, we want to put Bobby in training with you because we think she can win the police on to the forum. And the forum was a great, great series of course shows. I mean, it was only one week a year. And I can’t remember how many years it went, but it was in this big indoor sports complex by the LA airport. And, you know, we laughed. You know, we thought he was out of his mind, but we took her because we weren’t about to turn away any training customers. And so we built our own wall at our farm and ranch of Santa Fe. And I was married then to Steve Grod. And we tipped her well over seven foot at home. I mean, at the end, it was a training process up to that point, of course, but she would not stop. I mean, she was an amazing horse. And that horse really put me on the map. I mean, she, I had a great horse when I moved to California. That was Jumper Champion of Virginia, 1965, I think. But it was my first experience turning as a true professional. And that was she. I won every resorts I ever rode her in. I mean, she just, the highest recorded was 6’11. But she, and then the Grand Prix’s were coming. And in fact, my ex and I created the first $100,000 Grand Prix anywhere. And that was in Southern California. And riders were invited. We had clients that were building a new development, and they wanted something very special. Like they had Billie Jean King do a tennis match there. And we had this Grey’s Horse Show. And it went over great. So, I mean, you know, it was pioneering. It was like trying to help the West Coast catch up to the East Coast. And it accomplished that. So, you know, that mare jumped in those Grand Prix’s. And as did babies of hers, one in particular, Bamala Babe. So, Bobbi passed her Denson determination on to her foals. One year at Cota da Casa horse show, they called it a Grand Prix. I don’t know that it would never qualify as one these days, but I won every Open Jumper class on Bamala Bobbi, including the quote Grand Prix, and her daughter, who belonged to Dr. Brumfield, won every, I think it was Green Jumper’s then, it was either Green Jumper’s or Preliminary Jumper’s, I think it was Green then, as she won every one of those. And then another horse of the Brumfield was second in every class that the Bamala babe won. So the Brumfield horses put me on the map. They, you know, they did, and it was great. And we had to buy, sell business. So she was, of course, for sale. So she ended up selling to our saddle bred lion. And one of the two horses that I got to ride for a very long time, including a godfather, but the rest of them were all for sale. And, you know, you’d win and they’d be gone. It was a good time to be coming up in the new roof.
Piper Klemm: I was talking to someone else recently who was saying that if her, you know, if her dad hadn’t been involved with helping her care for the horse and be part of her show experience, he, like, he never would have supported so many people and found his own love of horses and been such a big part of it. And when you were just saying that about your saddle-bred client buying a jumper, it kind of made me think back to that conversation because by being so hyper-exclusive and so formalized and so business-like, we miss out on a lot of people and opportunity and collaboration for training, for excitement, for clients, for kind of all of the above.
Dianne Grod: Yeah, I totally agree. It’s just a different world in horse shows these days. I mean, thank God I got my judges card back and I started the process in 75. It’s going to be 50 years next year. But because, you know, once you, I quit riding in, it was either 2000, 2001, right around there. And it actually, my Grand Prix horse, Colleague at Indio, and when I was warming him up for the Grand Prix that day, Ronnie Freeman was actually setting fences for me. And I told him, I said, you know, something feels really off. And he said, oh, you’re just being silly. You know, that was Ronnie. So I went in and my eye was off, is what it was. And so that night that horse actually collicked. I went to the eye doctors the next day and discovered I had cataracts. So with him having to have colic surgery and being laid up and everything and me needing cataract surgery, which was a big process back then, not like today, that’s when I decided to hang up my saddle. I mean, I was 57, I think, or something like that. But I tried not to think in ages, it’s way too scary.
Piper Klemm: Talk to us about pivoting and about doing new things, becoming an appraiser, an expert witness, judging more. How has this kind of kept you involved and did you see yourself kind of going in this direction or you’ve just explored opportunities as they’ve come up?
Dianne Grod: Well, you know, obviously in the early years, I was showing so much that we had a lot of horses in training. And by a lot, I mean, there were 60 in our care. So, you know, I was obviously really hard to juggle a lot of judging back in the early days. And then as things slowed down a little bit, I was able to take on more judging jobs. And I even did two in France. A friend of mine from France managed, and that was awesome. So, you know, as things slowed down, I gave up my public business in 2002. And then I had a private job. You know, I was coaching Julie Winkle, and then it took another private job after that. So it wasn’t until after all of those things that I was able to really take judging jobs in earnest, you know, where I actually was seeking out judging jobs, which is not my strong suit. I’m a terrible promoter of myself. Judging in those days was so different than today. I mean, luckily, I started using the numerical system early on when we first had to start using it. And then I just decided it was the best way to go. So I’ve used the numerical system ever since, and that was… Natalie, I don’t even want to say how long ago that was. I know Jimmy Lee fought hard against it, but he lost. So, you know, as always, times change, and you have to do different things. I’ll tell you one thing that from my growing up in horses and my participation, I’ve always been at this competitive brain that was like, and I know I got this from my dad, that I just like to win. When my son had a very serious accident in 1985, I was actually at Nelson Pessoa’s when it happened, and had his pancreas in half, and four life-saving surgeries and all of that. A friend of mine called me and said, hey, you’re spending too much time at the hospital. I mean, he was off and on seven months in terms of care. So she goes, you’ve got to come out. I’m doing this new thing and it’s so fun. And it was team panning, which is a cattle event. And then I said, no, no. And she goes, just come watch. So I went from the hospital to right up the road to this place to watch her team pan. And she said, I brought you a horse. And I go, no, no, no, no. I don’t have a saddle. You don’t have a saddle. It gives me, yeah, my daughter’s saddle will fit you. The problem with being corporate, eight. So I actually loved it. And I actually won the first money, $561. It was winning this one on one. And there was like a million people in it. And at the same place. And it was later, of course, I had just gotten my first penny horse. And so this one, you had to go into the herd cattle, 30 head of cattle. Actually in the one on one, there was only 15 head of cattle. And they call your number and they’re telling you to go. And you have to take that cow out of the herd and put it in the pen. Now, I think I might have gone early in the thing. And it was like God intervened that day. Because the cow was sitting right on the outside of the herd. My horse was awesome. She had been a snapple bit horse and she had done a lot of stuff. She just scooped it right out. And I mean, straight into the pen, like literally God had that cow on a rope. It was like my time was something like 20 seconds or less. And I thought, well, that will never hold. $561, that peaked my interest greatly. So, you know, that’s the thing. I always, I guess I was determined to take the fun out of it and just want to win. But I had fun. Those were good 12 years of my life. It was great people camping out at these team pennings. And, you know, I went through several horses. The last one I had till she was 36 years old in someone else’s care that I gave her to those, to that family. Because I promised that horse I’d never sell her, and they wanted her badly. So, you know, that was just looking at a whole different aspect of horse sport that was as exciting as show jumping in a lot of ways. Probably not quite as exciting as show jumping, but it was fun. And, you know, so I loved branching out and doing different stupid stuff. You know, it was just, it was in my genes. And I wish more people had that opportunity, to be honest. So team penning is still going on all over. I mean, when I was team penning competitively a lot, we went to Oklahoma, we went to Texas, we, you know, it was a great stress reliever, like my friend told me. Go out there and yell at the cattle and get all that stuff out. We can’t do that with the show jumpers, although I’ve been known to in the past, obviously, to yell on occasion.
Piper Klemm: The concept of almost like wanting to win so badly, like being a ferocious competitor, we’re almost in today’s world, we’re so afraid to say that we want something, we’re so afraid to say that we want to win. I think a lot of people won’t even be that vulnerable with themselves that they like, even be ferociously competitive. Like how do we get some of that bravery back? And how do we, cause I, you know, when I think about how horse shows have changed, like it’s so, you know, business, like I think in a lot of ways, but everyone is so afraid that they might say that they want to win something and not win, that they almost, you know, they’re trying, but like, it’s a weird, like they almost want to act like everyone was unexpected. Or, you know, there’s this mentality that’s like kind of hard to put your finger on right now. That’s not like just open.
Dianne Grod: Well, you know, for starters, today’s trainers coming up, they’re not teaching horsemanship. And when you learn true horsemanship and taking care of your own horse and doing your own stuff under the guise of, you know, qualified professionals, of course, right? But there’s so few of those qualified professionals these days. They don’t teach horsemanship. And so if you learn to live like a horse, you know, then you end up thinking like a horse. And so you’re entitled to, you know, not just the people that do that are entitled, don’t get me wrong, but you’re entitled to enjoy your victories and mourn the ones you didn’t. I mean, it only makes you come back as a better competitor, but there’s usually always a reason why you don’t win. And many times it falls on the rider. I mean, the horses are only doing what we’re communicating to them. So it’s such a complex sport for that reason. And you can see the ones that truly rise are the ones that really have stuck their hand in it and gotten dirty. You know, it’s a lost art, in my opinion, but my humble opinion, I might add, but the dynamic has changed. You know, instead of learning to ride better, people are just paying more money for horses. Now, that’s not a bad thing you’re feeling on the selling end, but it’s a very difficult thing for, as you know, for a lot of people to achieve. You gotta have a lot of money to show these days. The horses are so expensive. You know, it’s just become harder and harder for that person with the true dream. But if they work hard, they’ll get it done. I mean, I rode zebras when I was a kid. I wanted to ride anything that had four legs apart from my dog. And, you know, you just, you have to have that desire. And I know Margie Engle, the same thing for her. People say you’re too short. Well, that was a dare to me. And I didn’t even know I was short until later years when someone pointed it out. It takes desire for sure. It takes hard work for sure. It also now takes a lot of money. And that is hard for a lot of people that are trying, you know, trying to be somebody.
Piper Klemm: Well, I actually think that you almost, the short thing is really interesting because so many people today want to tell you why you can’t do it. And in any given 24 hours, I get so many calls, texts, emails, Facebook posts on why I can’t do any given thing that I’m doing. Yeah, people tell you you can’t do it today. I don’t know. I feel like it’s unprecedented the number of people sitting around telling other people that they can’t do stuff.
Dianne Grod: Well, fortunately, I’m not in on those conversations because I would have to argue that point completely. I mean, it’s, I still believe that hard work and all that will help you get there. It’s just that you have to mix it with a little luck to fall into the right situations. And that makes me so sad. There’s a little girl in Washington state. I judge there every year for a long time. And so I’ve watched this kid come up on these ponies that her, I believe it was her grandmother that bred them. And every year I was more and more amazed with this child because she’s starting all these green ponies. And that’s all she had in the beginning. And now she’s showing a horse. And I just judged there like three weeks ago. So I was so happy to see her and the horse is somewhat green to what she was doing with it. She was doing really well. Then I heard the story that her grandmother had there was an issue family wise and marriage wise and stuff that came into it apparently. But I never actually met her mother or with a grandmother. I was judging. So that kid has lost all of her backing. She’s living with a trainer who’s helping her, you know, get some rides and stuff and the horse she’s riding, which she’s doing a fabulous job with, is for sale. They joked about that when they were announcing her in Washington. But it made me cry because they had done already in her young time, had done so much for other people. I mean, making these ponies so they could be sold and, you know, just riding the good ones to the bad ones. You know, it just, that really struck a chord with me. I even talked to her about it at the end of the horse show because I had been a fan of hers probably from the beginning when she very, very first started showing. I don’t remember how old she was, but young. And she still had the attitude that, don’t worry about me, Dianne, I’m going to be fine, you know. You know, she’s, I hate the word tough. I’ve been called tough so many times. Strong, I think, is a better word, but people always use tough. That little girl willmake it. I mean, while I’m sad for the situation she’s in, there’s no doubt in my mind that she’s going to be somebody. And that kid has the attitude to be the president of the United States. You know, she’s just, so while I mourn for the loss of all the things she won’t have, she will because she’s determined and she’s going to make it. And there’s people behind her that are going to do everything they can to help. That’s a lost art. I mean, wouldn’t you say? To find somebody like that these days, I don’t get involved with a lot of the kids at the horse shows anymore. I watch a lot. I mean, a lot. And I also, it’s important for me to watch with my appraisal work and stuff because I have to collect sales comps and lease comps and all that. So I pay totally close attention to the sport right now, but it’s, I wish I could say it was supporting me better than it is, but it’s every, watching everything helps everybody. We have to learn by watching when I was a kid. So, you know, my horses really changed a lot of things for people that are still students of the sport, which everybody should be until the day they die.
Piper Klemm: Talk to us about appraising and being a certified equine appraiser. What does that mean and what do you do and what do you consider about the horses?
Dianne Grod: Well, I started my process a very long time ago when it was kind of in its infancy. So at that time, we had to fly to the training courses and, you know, test. Like I went to Nashville, I went to Fort Worth, you know, in my pursuit of completing the program. And nowadays, everything is online. And so you don’t have that extra added expense, you know, to be certified. But they have very valuable courses. The American Society of Equine Appraisals, their courses are, they prepare you. Though it helps to have a varied course background, but it’s a big process. People don’t actually realize. I mean, I look at videos, the horses that I’m asked to appraise. I look at videos, I look up their show records. I, you know, see who they beat and who they didn’t beat. And all of that sort of thing comes into play. Of course, people always want you to appraise a lot higher than you’re inclined to do. But you have to protect the people as well by giving them sound advice, because you don’t want them being approachable by the IRS, you know, contradicting an evaluation on a horse. So you have to really do due diligence in order to protect your clients and the integrity of the sport as well. Luckily, there’s a lot of places to donate horses now. And so good horses are going to good places. And I won’t, I mean, I do offer advice as to where to go because of different geographical locations and things like that. But only if I know those horses are not going to end up as a kill pin sometime in their life. So it’s a long process of studying. And I think it’s a lot easier for people to get into it now. And I don’t see that as a bad thing. I’m happy that they didn’t have to endure the expense, as old guys did. But, you know, and they used to have a program that was a CD. And so it made it easier to configure the appraisals. They don’t have that anymore because that CD stopped with Windows 10 or even 8. I don’t even remember when it was a long time ago when it stopped. It takes me hours to do one appraisal, you know, and figuring everything since I’m not a techie. I’m always looking for a new techie. But, you know, I love doing it. And it’s, you know, a career that more people should look into. It’s a process. It’s definitely a process. And they make you earn your stripe. And having a good resume for sure helps in verifying your valuations, you know, because of the IRS, they think I might actually know what I’m talking about. And anybody that’s, you know, had a history in the horse world, it does the same for them.
Piper Klemm: You’re also an expert witness in lawsuits in the equestrian industry. It seems like the number of lawsuits in the last five years has just absolutely exploded. I don’t know what to make of people in our community wanting to sue each other so much, exactly. It’s the lawyers are the only ones that win. How does that kind of work? What types of things are you asked of?
Dianne Grod: I mean, it’s obviously a very, very serious job. Just like a business. I’m really picky now, especially as I get a little older, on what cases I would take. One I was working on just settled like three days ago. You’re going to make enemies. And I’ve definitely made a few. And I don’t look at doing the expert witnessing as a vendetta against anybody or anything. I want to make sure I’m on the right side of the case. But it is getting really, really hard. You’re right. So many people sue. And you just have to pick the battles you know you can win. And the attorneys are hard to work for. Obviously not all of them. But yeah, I’m leaning a little bit. I’m being super, super picky about what case I take now. Because of the stress involved and everything else. So I mean, I’m still doing it. But I caution anybody that wants to get into that, or the horse world, to be equally as careful. You make a lot of money doing it. There’s no question about it. I’ve been doing it for a long time. I think my first one was 1980. But you make a lot of enemies. I mean, the appraisal thing comes into it because you’ll get to be, they’ll want you to appraise the horse and be their expert in trial. I had a case that involved a horse that a moose dog caused to break a flag at a horse show. But that particular horse in that lawsuit, I called every judge that judged them during that circuit and showing in the confirmation division and in the two foot six adult hunter division who’s doing the four foot hunter divisions and being super competitive. And so I had sales comps for that horse. He was dead, so there’s nothing anybody could do about that. But obviously, I couldn’t get recent pictures or anything like that. But the manager of that horse show, I heard, was very upset. And I talked to the client out of suing the horse show. And then the trainers involved with the loose dogs, I practically got death threats because of my valuation on that horse. I mean, I’m not kidding.
Piper Klemm: Oh, I mean, I know I’ve gotten death threats from publishing The Plaid Horse. I mean, being honest is not popular.
Dianne Grod: Really? You’re telling me something that’s amazing me. Oh, yeah.
Piper Klemm: Yeah, I’ve gotten some interesting threats over the years.
Dianne Grod: Yeah, well, that’s scary. I mean, you know, I kind of went through that part of my life back in the day. And so getting your life threatened is not a good thing for anybody. Another good reason is to pick your case as well.
Piper Klemm: Absolutely. And then pick the battles you think you can win.
Dianne Grod: Whether you hope you can win is any right. But you know, the person on the other side of the case is going to hate your guts. There’s no question about it. You know, there, it’s just, it’s going to happen. You just have to be strong enough. Notify said strong, not tough.
Piper Klemm: I like it. I’m going to be hearing myself talk a whole bunch after this interview. Strong, not tough. Well, Dianne, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Dianne Grod: Oh, you’re very welcome.
Piper Klemm: To learn more about anything we’ve discussed on today’s show, visit theplaidhorse.com. You can find show notes at theplaidhorse.com/listen. Follow The Plaid Horse on all the social medias. You can subscribe to the print edition of The Plaid Horse magazine at theplaidhorse.com/subscribe. Please rate and review The Plaidcast anywhere you listen to it, and if you enjoy this episode, please share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Piper Klemm, and you’re listening to The Plaidcast.
