Plaidcast 391: Amanda Lyerly & Lauren Kardel by Taylor, Harris Insurance Services

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Piper speaks with August cover story of The Plaid Horse Magazine, Amanda Lyerly and Lauren Kardel about educating the next generation of equestrians. Brought to you by Taylor, Harris Insurance Services. Listen in!

GUESTS AND LINKS:

• Host: Piper Klemm of The Plaid Horse Magazine
• Guest: Amanda Lyerly is a trainer and rider based out of Madison Hills Farm in Gates Mills, Ohio, and Wellington, Florida. Amanda’s students and horses have won championships at the biggest horse shows in the country including the Devon Horse Show, the Pennsylvania National Horse Show, the Washington International Horse Show, WEF and the Pony Finals. Read about Amanda in the August 2024 issue of The Plaid Horse Magazine.
• Guest: Lauren Kardel is a Northern California native that has spent the last 15 years living and working in Europe. While in California, Lauren competed in the Jumpers and Equitation, picking up prizes in medal finals and at the Grand Prix level. She got her start in Europe working under Axel Verlooy and Harrie Smolders in Belgium, before spending six years in Ireland. Currently, Lauren owns a stable in East Holland where she runs a dealing and training business.
• Title Sponsor: Taylor, Harris Insurance Services, Taylor, Harris Insurance Services (THIS) was founded in 1987 to provide specialized insurance for all types of equine risk. THIS places their policies with the highest rated and most secure carriers, meticulously selected for reliability and prompt claims settlement. THIS is proud of their worldwide reputation for responsive and courteous service, and welcomes the opportunity to discuss your equine insurance needs and provide you with a quote.
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• Sponsors: American Stalls, Purina Animal Nutrition, World Equestrian Center, LAURACEA, America Cryo, BoneKare, Show Strides Book Series, With Purpose: The Balmoral Standard. Good Boy, Eddie, HITS Horse Shows and Great American Insurance Group
• This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.
• Piper Klemm: This is The Plaidcast. I’m Piper Klemm, publisher of The Plaid Horse Magazine, and coming up today on episode 391, I talk about the August cover story of The Plaid Horse Magazine, Amanda Lyerly, and then with Lauren Kardel about educating the next generation of equestrians. This episode is brought to you by Taylor Harris Insurance Services. Amanda Lyerly is a trainer and rider based out of Madison Hills Farms in Gates Mills, Ohio in Wellington, Florida. Amanda’s students and horses have won championships at the biggest horse shows in the country, including the Devon Horse Show, the Pennsylvania National Horse Show, the Washington International Horse Show, the Winter Equestrian Festival, and Pony Finals. Read about Amanda in the August issue of The Plaid Horse Magazine. Welcome to The Plaidcast, Amanda.
• Amanda Lyerly: Thanks for having me.
• Piper Klemm: We talk a lot on the plaidcast about how many kind of different aspects and different skills you need in this sport. And I think that you’re super interesting because you have so many different skills and so many different abilities to train horses and train riders and ponies and hunters and jumpers and at the very highest level. Can you talk to us a little bit about getting started and building skill when you were young?
• Amanda Lyerly: Well, I was a barn rat as a kid. So I think just being in a barn all the time, paying attention, I learned so much just from that. And honestly, at horse shows, I would hang out all day and just try to like amass as much knowledge as I could. And I think that’s huge. But I also had really, really good people to help me when I start, good trainers who really instilled horse care and understanding the horse, not just the riding part. So I think all of that foundation really helped.
• Piper Klemm: So how do you incorporate that into your barn? It’s getting harder and harder. And today’s world is, you know, there’s a lot of complaining, but how do you effectively put that into your barn?
• Amanda Lyerly: Well, I think, first of all, I, like I said, I think it’s time constraints. I think a lot of kids have a lot of expectations on them as far as school, maybe other sports they do, social commitments. And I think they just don’t spend as much time in the barn as probably you or I did as kids. And I think some of them would like to spend more time and probably some of them wouldn’t. But our kids, you know, we have grooms at the horse shows but at home, when they come after school, they tech their own horses up, they put them away. So they’re spending time with them and getting to know them. And I would say most of my kids are happy to help and jump in at the horse show. They’re not the kind that like stand at the mounting block and wait for their horse. But some of that can still, some of it, that they have to have the will to want to learn and want to be involved. I don’t think it can force that. I think if you have, you know, you have to want that part of it a little bit too. 
• Piper Klemm: We have this sense that you need to be such a specialist to win and such a specialist. I would say at such a young age to do well. You’re kind of proof of an opposite concept that you can be really excellent at many facets of this. But the temptation to specialize must kind of hit you sometimes, right?
• Amanda Lyerly: I mean, I think, I mean, basically your foundation for all of it is the same, whether you’re doing equitation or jumpers or hunters. I mean, it’s all built on basics. So I think as much mileage and experiences you can get is good mileage, you know, if you’re getting good information and you’re riding, you know, a horse that’s going to benefit your riding, I don’t really think you have to specialize so young. I think the more you get on a horse and the more you can do, if you have those opportunities, do it all. And then, but I think the more time you’re just riding, whether it’s equitation, jumpers or hunters, more time in the saddle is always going to make you better.
• Piper Klemm: Do you think kids are riding not as much today as they used to or like how do you think that part of it has changed?
• Amanda Lyerly: Well, I think it’s hard. I think there’s kids that would ride a lot more if they could, but they can only afford to have one horse or they only have one horse. So I think unless they’re in a situation where they can, they’re good enough to get catch rides or they’re a working student, it’s hard for some kids to get more time in the saddle if they can only have one horse. So I don’t know if it’s that they’re riding less because they don’t want to or because they don’t have the opportunity afforded to them.
• Piper Klemm: You said it only takes, I think you’re quoting someone else, but you said to me once it only takes one horse to change your career. Can you tell us what that means to you?
• Amanda Lyerly: I think there’s a lot of people who are really, really talented riders, but maybe they never really have a horse that’s capable of winning. So I think nobody, people probably respect them and say, that girl looks like she does a good job or she rides well. But I think if you get that one good horse, that you’re able to really be competitive with and get noticed and put you on the map, it can really, they think there’s probably people, people we don’t even know out there that are really, really good riders, but they’ve just never had the chance to have the right horse to have some success on and get noticed. I think about that a lot because there’s so much discussion. I think of, when you look at the very, very top of the sport of how many horses you need to sustain being at the top of the sport, that people try to build strings, but it’s this constant balance, which as a sport, we’re all terrible at balance, but it’s this balance between finding that horse that’s gonna grow your career and the saddle time and having enough horses and all of the different aspects of it that I think is a really interesting part of that statement. And I think you see that even with kids from a young age, like you can have a kid that maybe rides really well, but doesn’t have a pony necessarily that maybe, maybe doesn’t have a lead change or maybe it’s spooky. So, nobody really pays attention or notices them, and then they get the chance to maybe ride something that’s sort of, they have a chance to win on, and people are like, wow, this kid actually does a really good job.  So I think, you can stand and watch, and if you’re really paying attention, you can look through and say, wow, this kid actually is doing a really good job with something that’s really hard. But I think people are running from ring to ring and you don’t have time to sit and really watch a lot of the kids ride. So you notice them more when you were like, notice that they pop up and win something, if that makes sense. But I think there’s a lot of kids that maybe don’t get discovered until later because they just don’t have heard of that animal that they get noticed on, if that makes sense.
• Piper Klemm: You’ve trained a lot of young kids and pony kids to tremendous success. That’s a lot of pressure at a young age. How do you handle managing, being trainer, putting the right amount of energy into the system of wanting to win and wanting to level up and wanting to learn and also that they’re kids?
• Amanda Lyerly: I think it’s so dependent on the kid, specifically in their personality. I think there’s some kids that thrive on being pushed and there’s other kids that you sort of have to be a little bit more careful that you don’t put the pressure on them. And I think you kind of have to read your kid and know sort of how to handle each situation. Does that make sense? I mean, like Emma Kurtz, for example, I don’t think that kid ever, if she felt pressure, you never knew it. And she, you know, you just kind of let her do her thing.  But I think it’s so specific to the person because I think some, you know, they all just handle it differently. So I don’t think there’s like a one way to really say, to handle it. I think you just really have to know your kid and sort of read them and know when’s the right time to push and when’s the right time not to. And you know, and I do tell them, your kids, like, you’re going to have a bad day here and there and it doesn’t mean you’re a bad rider. Sometimes your horse might have a bad day and someday you might have a bad day, but you know, it doesn’t make you, make or break you because you had one bad round. 
• Piper Klemm: I’ve noticed over the years that so many kids struggle with either being extremely correct and like almost somewhat stiff in their riding and then also being too, you know, loose and soft and then, you know, mistakes come from there and your pony riders especially, it’s this balance between being really correct and also being loose and soft, which again, you have plenty of professionals developing it, but developing that as a young age, is that how conscious is that for you? And it’s a very empathetic riding, but it takes so many hours in the saddle to learn how to do.
• Amanda LyerIy: I find most kids, I feel like their style sort of relates back to probably what the first animal they had were. I feel like you have kind of a kid that’s stiff and lost. They probably had a first pony that was strong or a little bit hot and pulled them around. You know what I mean? I think each kid’s style sort of develops from what they learned on. When they’re really little, like for me, you focus on the basics, but I don’t stress the position has to be perfect. I mean, their hills need to be down. They need to be in the right place, but I think you sort of let them in the beginning sort of figure it out and develop their style, and then you tweak it. Because I think everybody sort of naturally has a way that works for them. And then I think the more time they have in the saddle and the more you start to work with them, and then you kind of try to tweak it so that, you know, their position and their style is correct, but not really take away their natural feel. I think it’s almost harder for me when you have a kid that’s stiff and wants to be so perfect, that’s almost harder to fix. So when you have a kid who’s sort of naturally loose, because I think it’s easier just for the horses and they’re happier when they ride loose and not stiff.
• Piper Klemm: Let’s talk about business and infrastructure. You’re running a huge business. How do you balance your time doing that and with the horses and keeping an eye on all the different facets of keeping all the balls in the air? 
• Amanda Lyerly: Really good staff. I have excellent grooms, but I also have excellent assistant trainers, board manager. I mean, I’m probably more involved than most people just because I like the day-to-day stuff and I enjoy being involved in it. But there’s, I think that in this day and age, there’s no way you can do this successfully if you don’t have good people around you. And I’m probably guilty of not balancing it enough as far as taking time away from the barn. I’m getting better with age, but I think you have to build a group around me that you trust so that you do feel like you can stand back or walk away for a bit, a day or two and come back, I think.  But I think if you have a big group of horses, you really have to have good people around you to make it work.
• Piper Klemm: What kind of do you look for in when hiring assistant trainers? What kind of skills? What is important to you when people maybe greener, but enthusiastic coming out of the gate?
• Amanda Lyerly: I mean, work ethics, first of all. I mean, I don’t think anybody can be really good at what they do in this business if you’re not willing to put in the time and really get out there. Because I think if you have a assistant that’s very hands-on and willing to jump in and help and do that stuff, then they’re probably already a better horseman or horsewoman than most. I don’t feel well with the, I just want to teach lessons and not do anything else. They have to want to be involved in all parts of it. And they have to be, we all have to be on the same page. Like this kid is working on this, so we’re not all giving them something different every day. Like we all kind of talk so that we’re on the same page with what each person sort of needs to work on. And so they have to be willing to communicate and not just kind of go off and want to do their own thing within the barn. But I think it’s really hard to find people who really want to be involved in all aspects of it. And there’s so many people that you interview and they say, well, I just want to ride or I just want to teach. And I just don’t think those kind of people probably for me give back enough or care enough.  I think you have to really want to be in the daily routine of things to give, at least for me, to fit in into my program.
• Piper Klemm: We’re in this weird spot where everyone seems to want to be protecting themselves from getting hurt or whatever word you want to use instead of hurt. And I think that caring point is so important. Is it like being all in and caring and putting yourself out there? I mean, that’s the only way you have great anything, great horses, great friends, great business, but it’s so hard. It’s always been so hard, but I feel like it’s especially hard for people in today’s world. It’s a level of risk that they’re not comfortable with to care.
• Amanda Lyerly: Yeah, and I think it’s, I don’t know. I think it’s hard because I think that position as far as an assistant is a more transient position because I find that they either get to an age where they either decide this is not what they want to do. They don’t want to travel this much. They want to be home whether it’s because they have a significant other or they’re just get over it, or they end up wanting to do their own business. So I think it’s a hard position to keep someone for a long time because their natural progression is usually to want to go and do their own thing if they decide they want to stick with it. So I do find it’s a high turnover job, unless you find someone that really doesn’t want the responsibility of doing their own thing. But I think now, more so than when I was a kid, I think most people’s goal is never to stay in a system, if that makes sense. And so I think that also makes it hard to find somebody. I think there’s more and more people going out on their own younger. My first job, I was there for, well, I basically worked there as a kid, but I was there for 15 years. And I really probably would still be there today if it weren’t for personal circumstances that I moved. But I just don’t feel like a lot of people want to stay in that position. I think you see some really big barn where there’s sort of, I would say, more co-trainers than assistants. But I think the assistant trainer is it’s a really hard position to find somebody that’s gonna stay in it for the long haul. I don’t know if you see that too, but. 
• Piper Klemm: Absolutely. And I feel like a lot of people don’t wanna be assistants at all. They wanna go right out on their own immediately and miss that kind of apprenticeship. You know, and obviously, like I’m a hypocrite because I went out on my own immediately. And it was very costly for me financially and emotionally to make all the mistakes on my own dollar.
• Amanda Lyerly: I mean, it’s a very different business too. You know, you’re not organizing, well, I don’t know. I don’t know so much about it, but I would, you know.
• Piper Klemm: I could have learned a lot from other people.
• Amanda Lyerly: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 
• Piper Klemm: And I didn’t.
• Amanda Lyerly: But I do find like, you know, this sort of this generation of people, I do feel like starts out on their own a lot sooner than, you know, the people my age and older did. So that’s why I feel like it’s, that’s a really, really hard job to fill. If you could, you know, most people liked, at least for me, I like someone that, you know, you develop a relationship so, and you get more and more comfortable with giving them more and more responsibility. So it’s hard, you know, you don’t want turnover because I think the longer you work with someone, the better you know them and it’s going to give them more and more to do and not feel like you have to stand over them. And, but I think it’s, it’s hard because I think you see so much more movement today between jobs. 
• Piper Klemm: One of the reasons I go to so many horse shows is because I feel optimistic at horse shows, like you’re around the people doing it and there’s this sense that it’s going well and then you kind of, you get on the internet and it’s the opposite of that. You are, you’re always optimistic, you’re always positive. I think all the people that are truly successful in the sport really are optimistic for this horse or that horse or they’re still excited about tomorrow and they’re still excited about this new one they have. How do we keep that, you know, we have our kids that are more and more online and online is so negative and so toxic. And I just don’t feel like our world is actually that negative in person, but like it’s getting harder and harder to like almost bring that out of it. Do you have trouble saying positive or does that kind of come naturally to spending the day with the horses?
• Amanda Lyerly: No, I mean, I think there’s always time for you with any horse you go through, you know, you’re just, you know, that they like to make your life difficult sometimes. And that part’s hard, especially say, you know, buy a new horse and it’s not working out. I wouldn’t say it doesn’t make you not positive, but I’d say it’s stressful because you, you know, you always want everything to work. But I’m a true believer that most problems can be worked through. And I think that’s a little bit what’s hard in this business today is, you know, a lot of these kids don’t see other kids having problems because I think there’s situations where other kids aren’t allowed to fail. Like, and maybe I’m wrong, but the horse is not working out in the first couple of weeks and it goes away and they don’t have to work through it.  So I think sometimes kids feel like they’re the only ones that have issues with their horses because they don’t see other people struggling. And that’s the same thing online. Nobody posts their bad videos, right? Everybody only posts their good videos. So I think when kids are spending so much time online watching these things, they can easily get down on themselves. They think everybody else’s situation is so perfect, but nobody really shows you the bad stuff. I think it’s not hard for me to stay positive. I think it’s harder to keep your riders more positive because, like I said, they’re only seeing the good stuff online. They’re not seeing, you know, anybody fall off or tip, or they’re only seeing the rounds, you know, you’re posting the rounds you got your 90 in, not the rounds that you had trouble. So I think that, as far as the Internet makes it a little harder to… Because horses do make you struggle, you know? They have good days and you have bad days, and I think when you’re just seeing what people post online, as a kid, you’re thinking that you’re the only one that’s struggling, or an amateur, or doesn’t have to be a kid. But I think it gives such a false sense of this sport being easier than it is.
• Piper Klemm: It’s also, like, a really, it is an interesting point of, like, competence and confidence being, you know, so intertwined in this positivity also. Like, if you know inherently somewhere that you don’t have the ability to fix something, you’re going to be really negative, because if it happens, you’re kind of doomed. Whereas, like, if you have the skills to fix something, even if it takes you time, like, that’s confidence you carry with you through your day and through the horse show. 
• Amanda Lyerly: I think what’s hard for me is I think more and more judges success through the ribbons they get, not through the little things that happen. You know, like, if you have a kid who, you know, has a pony that has a hard lead change, and you finally start to get in, like, for me, that’s huge. The kid, you know, for them to actually master something and figure it out versus them going in a class and letting a blue ribbon. But I don’t, I think it’s hard for people to look at it that way. Like, they think the success is what always happens in the show ring, not necessarily little steps that eventually are going to get you there. But, like, for me, I love it when somebody finally figures out how to do something that was hard for them. And that’s honestly a bigger deal than them winning a class. But I think that’s harder to convey to that person because I think everybody feels like they’re being judged on their results in the ring, if that makes sense.
• Piper Klemm: And I also struggle with that because, like, I totally agree with that. And also, you know, you have a lot of people who are training with, like, maybe the not as competent trader who, you know, say, you know, like, that reframes, you know, not really learning or, you know, it’s so hard because, like, I just, I want to all the time be like, I don’t know, just listen to your trainer, trust your trainer. If you don’t buy into your trainer, why are you there? But then we all know there are a lot of trainers that you shouldn’t buy into. So, like, at some level, the ribbons have, the ribbons are indicators of success, but not the process, I guess, yeah. 
• Amanda Lyerly: Right, exactly. And I think, too, it’s, you know, it’s an expensive sport, and I think that puts more, even more pressure on you as a trainer to feel like, you know, people are spending a lot of money, you know, they expect results. And that puts a lot of pressure on it. You know, like, as a kid, I never, I had really nice animals, but I usually had quirky animals. And it was satisfying to me that maybe I could do something with an animal that someone else couldn’t. And I think that’s harder nowadays to get kids to realize that. You know, there’s not everybody can afford to buy the nicest horse. So if you can ride a little bit or be a little brave and deal with a little quirk, you might can get a better, a nicer horse without the same kind of pocketbook. But you have to be willing to sort of work through things. And I think that’s harder and harder today. I think whether it’s a parent or the kid, but I think people want a lot more instant success. And I don’t, you know, even if you can spend all the money in the world, it’s not that easy to find, to find really good horses that are, that are easy. And I think that, that makes the job hard. And I think it’s, when you have a kid that really wants to learn the process and, you know, maybe take a horse that is hard to ride and they get joy from figuring it out, like that’s what’s really fun for me. But I think it’s harder and harder to find people, clients that enjoy that. Because I think that for me, it’s all about learning and understanding horses and figuring them out. And that’s what’s fun about this. But I think now it’s kind of become more of the norm just to want to go to the horse show and win and not have to sort of deal with issues.  And not necessarily just normal learning to ride, but learning to, you know, maybe fix a horse with a problem or a difficult horse or stuff like that. Because I think when you don’t have clients that can have five or six really nice horses, you can, if you have, like I said, if you have a kid or an adult that’s willing to sort of deal with a little bit of an issue, you can end up having maybe a really nice horse that you wouldn’t be able to afford otherwise.
• Piper Klemm: And I think, like, and you mentioned bravery, and I think that bravery is part of talent, and we don’t always kind of talk about it in those terms. 
• Amanda Lyerly: Yeah, I do. I mean, obviously, like, whether it’s subconscious, I mean, if you’re, if it’s easy for you, it’s not as scary, right? I mean, if you’re making less mistakes and things are coming easier for you, it’s going to be a lot easier to be brave than if you’re feeling like you’re going to fall off at every jump or you’re missing more than someone else. So, you know, it’s more awkward jumps. Yeah, I definitely think that the more talented you are, it’s easier to be braver because you don’t get yourself in situations that are as scary. But I think there’s a lot of people out there who maybe weren’t that talented starting out, but because they’re determined and they’re brave, they end up getting really far. You do have those people who you watch who just, you feel like they have no fear, and they end up, you know, even if maybe they didn’t have the most natural talent in the beginning, they end up getting far because they’re willing to get on that horse that maybe nobody else wants to ride that might be super talented, but will be a little tough.
• Piper Klemm: Because your program has so many different facets, you end up being at a lot of championships and peaking between the hunter-jumpers, equitation, and ponies. How do you kind of manage yourself, for a lot of barns or a lot of trainers, like a few times a year, levels of stress, whereas, you know, you’re going to them very frequently?
• Amanda Lyerly: I don’t actually, I don’t feel like I get that stressed out. Like I said, I actually get more stressed out if I’m worried about a situation, I would say more than a big competition. You know, like if, like I said, if you have a horse, you’re having a problem with, and you really want to make it work for the kid, you know, or the client. Like that kind of situation is more stressful to me than like a big event. I feel like most, you know, like if these kids have done their work all year and they’re prepared and they’re qualified, that getting there is the hard part. And now, you know, like I don’t get super stressed because it’s a bigger horse show than the other. Like I might get as nervous, you know, taking a short-stirrup kid to their first horse show, hoping that they stay on going around, then worrying about a kid who I feel like has, you know, the skill to jump around medal finals. It’s more situational for me, I would say, as far as the horse and rider versus what competition it is. Or you have, you know, a super nervous adult lady that you’re sending in the ring for the first time. Like that might stress me out more because it’s their first time doing something than a kid or an amateur that’s going to finals that is ready for that. Sometimes the smaller things are more stressful for me.
• Piper Klemm: Thank you for joining us, Amanda, on The Plaidcast.
• Amanda Lyerly: You guys have a good rest of your day.
• Piper Klemm: Lauren Kardel is a Northern California native who has spent the last 15 years living and working in Europe. While in California, Lauren competed in the jumpers and equitation, picking up prizes from medal finals to the Grand Prix level. Welcome back to The Plaidcast, Lauren.
• Lauren Kardel: I’m really glad to be back. Thank you so much for having me.
• Piper Klemm: So I had the good fortune to go visit you at your farm in the Netherlands, and it was very exciting and beautiful. And can you talk to us a little bit about growing up in California and deciding to move to Europe and your kind of experience over the last 15 years there? 
• Lauren Kardel: Absolutely. It’s been a really interesting road, actually. Growing up in California, I definitely had the idea that there were two things you could do with horses in your life, that you could be a rider or you could be a trainer, and there was nothing in between. So to have a little bit of opportunity, I moved over to Europe. I took a job for Axel Verloy, and when I arrived, I saw what he was doing with the clients and saw how much more there was to the industry in terms of selling. And I really got interested in how many different avenues there were to support yourself in the industry. Okay, I had a dream. I kept on riding and kept on going, thinking I might become a rider. And every year I worked in the industry, it took me closer and closer to thinking that selling horses was what was for me. So in the end, I ended up taking a job in Ireland after I was in Belgium and focusing as the lead of sales to America for that stable. It was Vinny Duffy and Michael and Alex Duffy. And I spent six years there doing that. I was really fortunate to get to work under Vinny, who is a really good dealer and learn a lot of things. And then I moved back to Holland and rented the stable that I purchased a few years ago and really built the business on my own. It’s been great. And getting the opportunity to buy the stable has just been a dream come true. And there’s so many things that I plan to do with it. I’m really excited. 
• Piper Klemm: We talk a lot about education and the sport. And I’m always interested in these educational pathways of how people seek it out for themselves. I think everyone who is successful in this sport is very smart, I mean, and very diligent about their education and not in the traditional sense, but in that learning sense. And, you know, can you talk a little bit about that kind of growth that you’ve had over the years, you know, working for the people, apprenticing, like taking really the years in your 20s that were probably like pretty unpleasant at times to turn it into a skill and a knowledge base that you utilize now? 
• Lauren Kardel: There were definitely extremely unpleasant moments, but also a lot of fun. I feel really fortunate that I took the years in my 20s to apprentice for people and to work for people. And I didn’t go out on my own until my 30s, even though there was a lot of jealousy looking back home at friends of minor acquaintances that in their 20s had their own businesses, wondering if I would ever be ready to join them. But I was extremely lucky. I got to work for Axel Verloy during the time that Harry Smulders was riding there. And to watch Harry work with the horses every day, to see his work ethic, that he was the first in the stable every day and the last to go home. And the way he cared about his horses and the way he thought of their training, I learned so much. And then to move on to be in Ireland where we were breaking the horses, we were going all the way to the European Championships. The breadth of the knowledge I learned there was insane. To get to go on the road and start to select two and three year old horses with the idea of selling them to America in five years and the type of selection criteria that you might go through for that was really interesting. And we got to go to some of the best shows in the world. We got to jump in in Paris at the Hermes show. We got to jump in Hamburg in the Hamburg Derby. We were riding on Nations Cup teams in Lisbon. It was an amazing opportunity to be at the top of the sport as a student to learn about where you source the horses, how you train them, how you bring them from the field with their mothers up to the point where they’re jumping five stars. These things I never would have learned had I decided that my intention was to just go out on my own and just start a business. And that’s something I want to bring back into the sport or because I think we’ve stopped valuing that apprenticeship as much as we used to. We’ve stepped into a zone where the end game comes so quickly and people have to be in charge so quickly. And it’s taken, I think, some of the student mindset out of people’s younger years. There were a lot of days when we started at five in the morning and finished at nine at night and a lot of really uncomfortable staff apartments, 50 weeks in a row, one time living in the truck on the road. But I learned everything I know and it left me thinking, I know a lot less than I thought I knew then.
• Piper Klemm: That was kind of like your grad school.
• Lauren Kardel: 100%. 100%. And just to step out into the world and to see that not only are there a million ways of doing something, but your way isn’t always the right way. And also to come to Europe and see the way the top professionals collaborate. I think that’s something we have missing in the sport in America. If a horse doesn’t get along with a top rider in Germany, say, they’re really interested in making sure that horse stays on the German team and stays with another rider and the riders will work together. There isn’t so much of a competition mindset in that way. Riders are willing to give each other advice at the show. It’s a little bit more collegial and that I’ve grown to really value. 
• Piper Klemm: I think there’s so much more understanding of how many more roles there are in the sport there than there was 15 years ago, like 15 years ago when you were looking at your options, like, you know, as you said, you ride or trainer. But I almost think because people are so much more aware of their options, so much younger, they specialize at something really early. And so we have a lot of professionals right now that are at the top of their game in every aspect of equestrian sport that all started fundamentally at some level, riding, training, really being part of it. And then the younger generation coming up with all roles from literally from media, videography, course designing, judging, they realize that those were careers earlier on and they didn’t spend the time riding and training and doing. And then they’re moving into these roles from an earlier age and an earlier specialization point. And so while I’m so glad that people understand how many more roles there are in the industry and how many more interesting things there are to do, it’s almost like the older generation all had this base before they pivoted.  And I’m not sure the way we’re developing people into some of these dealer roles or something. Like a lot of them don’t have the riding base and the training base and the grooming base and the being on the road base that you do. A lot of people coming into media don’t have the base that I do. It’s very interesting to see that next generation coming up. And how do you see that? And how can we be supportive of the world they’re growing up in? 
• Lauren Kardel: That’s a really interesting question, actually. I think we’re doing a huge disservice to our next generation because every role in this sport needs to work together in harmony to support the sport growing and staying healthy. And if you don’t have a wide base of support in the sport, say you want to be a dealer and you haven’t ridden, you haven’t trained, you haven’t seen the levels live and in person that you want to sell horses to, it’s really hard to have the idea of what a horse might do or to take a horse in and stand behind it and say, I believe this horse will jump a five-star Grand Prix or I believe this horse will be the best AO hunter in the country.  If you’ve never been in that position to see the finished product or to make a horse into the finished product, how can you sell the raw material? I don’t think it’s possible, but to be a bit empathetic about the world we live in now, someone who needs to have a job in the industry to be near horses probably can’t afford the type of breadth of experience that I was fortunate enough to have as a junior because it’s gotten so expensive. Where are our juniors that don’t have immense financial backing going to go to have the space of support? That’s one thing that scares me a little bit for the future. If we’re churning out judges that never rode and dealers that never trained, it’s only our fault because many of these people, I think, would look for opportunity as riders and as trainers if we made it possible. But every year that we make the ability to ride and train more exclusive and more expensive, we’re taking experience away from the people that we’re expecting to carry the sport into the future.  And I’m really frightened about what’s going to happen because the people who can afford to be clients, they never want to be trainers. They never want to be the stewards of the sport in the future. They want to be clients, and I respect that and I understand it. If we want to also train the next generation of trainers, coaches, saddle breakers, even sports medicine veterinarians, course designers, dealers, they need to be able to afford to have this base and the way I see it now, they can’t. 
• Piper Klemm: So you are doing something about this and not just pointing out the issue, which is one of the many things I respect about you. I did the math after I got home from the Netherlands last week and I literally could fly to the Netherlands and lease a horse and show cheaper than I could show from my own bed, which is its own layer of many things. What are you doing and how are you working to make opportunity happen and help people develop that base of support?
• Lauren Kardel: The first thing I want to say about that is that I’m coming at it from a position of really immense gratitude for the people here that took me under their wing and that showed me my way. And I understand that without those people, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do now. And many of them allow me to continue to be a student, which is wonderful. What we’re doing at my place in the Netherlands, Altena Cardella State, we have built a student center with 10 individual studio apartments. We have 30 stables. We have an indoor-outdoor ring, a really top-of-the-line environment for training. And we want to bring in American students, but also students from around the globe to get to come to the center of show jumping and have a holistic education in our sport. Regardless of what their end goals are, we want to offer the opportunity at a cost that’s attainable in comparison to where the costs are going in this sport to see top shows, to study at good vet clinics, to speak to farriers and nutritionists, and also to have really high level training so that we can contribute to the education of the next generation. I’m a horse dealer by trade, and if we don’t support the next generation, I won’t have anybody to sell horses to. Because I watch over the years the ability to have education just slip farther and farther away from people who want it. So we want to allow the opportunity to come here and study and ride and show, which is up till now been a really elite experience, an experience where people are flying their own horses over, training with top riders, flying their own staff over to be able to be in this mecca of the sport, so to speak. And I want to provide that opportunity to the next generation of trainers and riders that wouldn’t otherwise get the opportunity. 
• Piper Klemm: So students of all ages can schedule with you to come out and they get to live at the farm, and they come for what, like two weeks to two years, whatever they want to come learn. And then talk about kind of the logistical setup, because I think this is really cool. You know, you worry about your kids and you worry about, I mean, you worry about yourself when you go abroad and who’s taking care of all of this stuff. So you’re set up for breakfast and lunch. And can you talk about even just like making sure people get from the airport and really cutting down on those anxiety points that we all have about travel?
• Lauren Kardel: Absolutely. It’s a really anxious thing. I remember when I first came over, I cried the entire flight to Belgium. I was so scared. We are really trying to cut down on those anxieties. We’re set up for students of all ages. We’re flexible about the amount of time that they want to stay. We’re making programs based on people’s goals, whether high performance show jumping at international shows is what you want, or whether you want to expand your base of support in the sport. We have the students living at the farm. So it’s as simple as waking up in the morning and walking across the driveway to your training. At the farm, we also have a groundskeeper and his wife, and they’re a little bit the mother and father of the facility. We make sure that everybody is safe, give them opportunity to ask questions or have help 24 hours a day at the stable. We handle all the airport transfers to and from, and we handle breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So that’s flying into Amsterdam. Flying into Amsterdam, yes. So we’re located just one hour and a half from Amsterdam Airport, and we handle the transfers because it just makes things a little bit simpler. Riders come with a lot of gear, so it’s important that you’re not trying to navigate a foreign train system when you arrive, that you just hop in the car and come out to see us. We have a living room and kitchen in every unit, and then everybody gets their own studio apartment. They have their own bathroom and sink and a shared living room and kitchen. So we can handle people with dietary restrictions and all those sort of everyday things, but we do cater-in breakfast and lunch and dinner, make it simple, make the everyday part of living here a lot easier.
• Piper Klemm: And so at your farm, you have sales horses coming through. You have people coming in pretty much daily to try horses. So you get to be part of that experience. You have babies, you have kind of everything going on, and you learn about, you have a great track system, you have trails, like it’s very comprehensive, which I think is another cool thing because, again, the way we’ve all had to do it in the US, and most American barns have become so specialized for a very specific point in an animal and a rider’s career and seeing that kind of holistic pathway of a horse’s life, I think is a huge part of that base. 
• Lauren Kardel: Absolutely. Comprehensive is the exact word I was thinking of. Economically, being specialized here doesn’t really work unless you’re really running a five-star stable at the top of the sport. And for us, we need to be able to afford to produce the next generation of horses at a price point that makes sense for our clients. And that means breeding young horses, that means buying horses, two-year-olds, three-year-olds, four-year-olds and bringing them in for training. And that also means having breeders bring horses in for us to try almost every day.  Just today, we had a breeder come in with three horses and we schooled them around the course and made plans with the breeder to have them come in for training twice a week until they’re ready to be sold onto the US market. And that also means having older horses that are going to shows and producing those up to the top level. And it means having sales horses that might have jumped already Grand Prix’s and are ready for a step down job in America or maybe an equitation job in the stable. Really from every point in a horse’s career, we have to have our foot in the water, otherwise economically it doesn’t work. So our place is built for that. We have the fields for the mares and foals. We have the training track in the woods, which is especially important for our young horses. The weather is bad in the winter. The track is open 365 days a year, and the young horses get the opportunity to get out of the indoor and stay forward and stay happy with their jobs. We have trails and space for road work so that the competition horses don’t ever get stale. We have a big outdoor. We have grass fields you can ride in. It just has to be a comprehensive space, or it doesn’t work economically, from my point of view. And that’s something I’m really excited to share with the international students, because it’s not something that you get to see in America, and there are so many avenues in this sport that we can introduce people to here.
• Piper Klemm: And then you have a lot of national horse shows very close to you, so getting in the show ring and getting mileage at every level is a very easy day trip, and be back in your dorm room. And then international shows obviously are more logistics, but you just have many options close by to get a lot of mileage with a low financial barrier. 
• Lauren Kardel: That’s for sure. It’s a much more professionalized system here in the way that there are day shows Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday in our area. Different show facilities run leagues where you jump every week for say 10 weeks. And then at the end, there’s a champion of the league. So every day of the week, there’s a training show you can go to. The entries are inexpensive. Young horses get to jump the class two times in a row if they need to. So you can produce a young horse, give them the chance to jump around the course one time, walk, read, jump the course again. Also for younger students that need to get that mileage, they can jump the course, come out, talk to their trainer, and then go back in and fix their mistakes over the same track. I find that to be really beneficial. And then it’s a quick drive back home. It’s fantastic to be able to do it. The other thing that’s a little bit more common here than at Home in America is we can rent the show facilities by the hour, and students can clinic there and get the chance to jump around a new course, get their confidence up and get ready to get on the road to shows. And then before you have to go make that financial investment in an international show, all of the major venues that you see online, Peelburg Inn, Derna, Centaur Park, all of these venues host national shows. So you can go also if you want to sleep away from home for three nights and ride a national show for even a fraction of the cost of an international show and get that experience that comes at such a premium in the United States. 
• Piper Klemm: Because at some level, you have to go in the ring so many times to be good at this. I mean, there’s kind of no way around that. Like without going in the ring and putting in the hours in the show ring, there you cannot, you know, you’re just limited, but also maybe actually you’re limited because those hours are expensive. And like, I do want to say too, that like we’re not sitting here saying like, Europe is better, I’m more of you. So this is a very important, like college or grad school, like teaching moment in a rider’s career to learn things. I mean, your really hope is that they, you know, go back to the US and they go back to the US with a greater base and a greater knowledge base and being better students of the sport. And I think in the US we do such a good job at starting riders and we have such good high level sport with huge prize money and this is like more of kind of an in the middle gap. This is like your college, grad school, your higher ed learning moment. This is not about better or worse or, you know, up or down, there is a very important time and place where this can make a big difference in a rider’s career.
• Lauren Kardel: Yes, absolutely. The way I see it, it’s a bit of a yes and. I believe in the American system. I want to help the American system. I am an American. This system raised me. The equitation, the hunters, this raised me and I want to contribute to it even though I live in the Netherlands. And the way I see it, what keeps me awake at night is that gap from say a kid that had one equitation horse and was able to get pretty solid in the 3-3 equitation and thinks, I love this sport, I want to give my life to the sport. How do I become a professional? I see my school as a place where we can bridge that gap between a kid that had the opportunity to ride some equitation, maybe catch ride some jumpers who turns 18 and needs a place to go where they can afford to put in the miles to get to the next step. I definitely don’t want to say that our system is better in Europe. There’s just so different. But if we can bridge the gap a little bit and make it a little bit more accessible to Americans, we can make our sport stronger on both sides, I think. I think if the kids can come here, get in those repetitions and go back to America and contribute to the next generation and contribute to the sport, become professionals, or even stronger amateurs, than I think a rising tide floats all boats. 
• Piper Klemm: Absolutely. So where can people learn more about this, more about kind of the room and board fees and all the structure and how they plan their trip or plan their girls’ weekend, plan their spring break, plan their semester abroad or their summer abroad? You know, I don’t know. I just, I love the timeline flexibility because it means, you know, if you can get a week or two off of work as an adult, you can do it. I want to come do it. I’m really excited. I got to find my two weeks to come ride. But yeah, it’s so much opportunity. And to just open your mind and do something different. And even though I didn’t, you know, participate in the program, like even just being over there and thinking differently just really helped my mind and really helped me think critically about what we do well and what I need to put effort to improve on in the US.
• Lauren Kardel: Definitely something I want to say. I think in a way and in equestrian sport worldwide, we are pretty good at gatekeeping in this sport in the name of seriousness. And that’s one thing that excites me about the timeline flexibility and what makes me happy about the way you just said that is plan a girls weekend, plan two weeks to come here, have a good time. It’s not just all about needing to be the next McLain Ward, even though we need those people too. Our sport is stronger when we have a big tent. And so I want this to be a place where people can come also in the name of having fun. People can come for a clinic for a long weekend. There’s so many possibilities. But if you want more information, I can give you guys the link. You can link people to the Altena Cardella State website that has some information. Most importantly, it has the information with how to get in contact with me. And we can organize directly one on one. It’s such a personalized program that most programs we do for people are bespoke. So you can get in contact with me. You can see photos of our place on our website. And we can make a plan for you.
• Piper Klemm: Amazing. Well, Lauren, thank you so much. And I look forward to getting to go out and visit again. And I’ll bring my riding stuff this time. I mean, the trails look amazing. And, you know, I’m really inspired to want to try to be more serious again. And I think as an amateur, like for all of us, this goes in waves. And I kind of I got out of my riding wave a little bit. And I got to get back in if I’m going to do it, because it never gets any easier. We just have to be more bullheaded, I think, as we get older.
• Lauren Kardel: Definitely. Sometimes you just got to jump in the pool. Definitely bring your riding clothes next time. We’ll get you out to a show. It’ll be really fun. It’s really important that these opportunities are available for everyone. And at the end of the day, we spend all our time and all our money on this sport. And we might as well find a way to make it fun. 
• Piper Klemm: To learn more about anything we’ve discussed on today’s show, visit www.theplaidhorse.com. You can find show notes at www.theplaidhorse.com/listen, follow The Plaid Horse on all the social medias. You can subscribe to the print edition of The Plaid Horse Magazine at www.theplaidhorse.com/subscribe. Please rate and review The Plaidcast anywhere you listen to it. And if you enjoy this episode, please share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Piper Klemm and you’re listening to The Plaidcast.